deluxestogie Grow Log 2016

[Alpine]

Uhm ... Toscanos are made with mostly Kentucky tobacco, heavily fire cured. No surprise toscanos taste different from kilned Nostrano leaves. The myth has it that Nostrano arrived in the Brenta valley with a monk, but nothing to do with the Caribbean. It was in the late 18th century that agronomists suggested some relationship with cuban tobaccos, naming two sub strains of Nostrano Avanone and Avanino (one and ino are italian suffixes that mean big and little) but they may well be wrong. I trust you more than a 18th century agronomist Bob. What makes you think that Nostrano and Habanos are not related?
Pier

 

[deluxestogie]

What makes you think that Nostrano and Habanos are not related?

I've grown many different "Havana" derived varieties:

• Havana 263
• Havana 38
• Havana 322
• Corojo 99 (from the Vuelta Abajo in Cuba)
• Coroja (from Cuba)
• Criollo (from Cuba)
• Vuelta Abajo
• Machu Picchu Havana
• Comstock Spanish
• Zimmer Spanish

Maybe some others that I can't remember at the moment. Though each is distinct in some way, all of them displayed a general "Spanish" type plant shape and leaf. The leaves tend to show a similar surface texture among all these varieties. And leaf size has never been huge. The leaf stem is not unusually thick.

From Billings' 1875 book.

Nostrano del Brenta developed a very thick stalk (over 2" thick), and enormous, wide and very smooth leaves with a massive, succulent stem. Its pattern of leaf maturation was also quite different. Leaf color was a lighter green than other Spanish varieties. Its suckers were thick-stemmed and aggressive.

There is no other variety of the hundred plus that I have grown that is similar to Nostrano del Brenta. BUT...it had 500 years to develop into a unique variety. I am really curious to discover how it cures and kilns and smokes. So far, it has color-cured to a medium red-brown.

I should add that every Nicotiana tabacum variety on earth originated from a fairly small geographic area in northern South America, and spread from there. So it would not be surprising if Nostrano del Brenta actually did originate from Cuba or Hispañola.

Bob

 

[Alpine]

Very interesting. Skychaser (who has exactly the same seeds you have) told me tha Nostrano grown in WA state is very uniform in size and shape, with no suckers (not even ground ones) and leaf size is 20-22" in lenght and 12/16" in width. Average of 16 leaves per plant. Maybe environment has a big influence... In our climate, plants are around 5 feet tall and leaves are around 20" or less, with a fairly dark colour and smooth surface. VA weather has made wonders! OR, the grower has some fertilizer secret?
Pier

 

[deluxestogie]

Well...the overall color of Nostrano del Brenta apparently becomes lighter as the leaves mature. Here is my photo from a month ago:

It looks pretty dark green to me. Note the size. This was not the largest leaf. My leaf count was 18.

Bob

 

[ProfessorPangloss]

Planter, I'm afraid I could not get Google to reveal even a single page of that book. Amazon says the print version is not available.

Nostrano del Brenta is KILNED!

Steel baskets of leaf in a giant kiln.

No more old fashioned piles of tobacco. The factory in Italy that manufactures the Antico Nostrano del Brenta cigars ferments its tobacco in a kiln.

This is the most detailed info on Nostrano del Brenta that I have found. (Translated to English, with lots of photos.)

https://translate.google.com/transl...odotti/sigari/nostrano/index.html&prev=search

The leaf is traditionally primed, and strung for color-curing. [Yay! That's what I did.]

The myth is that the variety is derived from a Havana type. Judging from its growth and appearance, I doubt this. But many Italian cigar forum contributors suggest that the taste of the Nostrano cigars is less like a Toscano, and more like a Caribbean cigar.

The brand name cigars are apparently manufactured from "threshed" Nostrano del Brenta filler leaf. No kidding.

Bob

Bravo, maestro. I too looked for that book a month ago and came to the same conclusion. I hope to join your Toscano rolling crew next summer.

 

[SmokesAhoy]

I need to stop reading your blogs! I'm trying to reduce my seed strains. The ad (granted it was an ad) that you posted had me positively salivating! And seeing the huge yield makes me want to add it to next years grow.

It really looks nice though, and I really want seeds now, hope you bagged a few

 

[Alpine]

If only Polygon 55 would chime in and tell us something about Nostrano in Ukraine... That would be a wonderful comparison, because he is a serious expert like Bob is
Pier

 

[deluxestogie]

Old Man Finally Gives In to Technology (6000 year old technology)

At the end of every growing season, I face the dreaded task of removing tobacco roots from the soil. Their removal minimizes overwintering pests. For years now, I wait for a good, soaking rain, then trudge out there and yank the standing stalks out of the ground, or dig out the roots of stalk-cut plants. There they lay, until thoroughly dry, so I can knock off the soil that clings to the root ball.

Now, even with saturated soil, some of the more vigorous tobacco varieties yank up from the ground only with maximum exertion on my part. For days afterwards, my back reminds me of my accomplishment.

Last week, I finally gave in. No more paleolithic pulling methods for me. I have leapt head first into Bronze Age technology, and purchased a mattock. It's only a baby one. At 2-1/2 pounds, it's not a manly tool.

For typical tobacco varieties, it takes one or two whacks into the surrounding soil, then the mattock can easily pry the entire stalk, with most of its roots, free of the dirt, using the leverage of the mattock handle. [My Nostrano del Brenta put out a massive root system, and required 6 soil cuts, before it could be pried up.] Since the prying motion uses the firm soil as a fulcrum, it only works with dry soil.

My verdict: Extracting tobacco roots from dry soil, using the 2-1/2 pound mattock requires maybe 1/3 as much physical effort as pulling up the stalks manually from saturated soil.

I would like to thank those clever folks who, back around 4000 BC, invented this handy tool.

Time Capsule

It's not often that I can track individual leaves from my green size photo to color-cured leaf. After doing a comparison leaf photo 5 weeks ago, I strung each of the varieties in the same sequence onto one wire.

Just primed.

After 5 weeks of color-curing


My sun-curing Izmir-Karabaglar is moving fast. It's been hanging for 13 days now. Today, I removed all newly sprouted suckers, to minimize aphids. Curious how the severed stalk continues to produce suckers, so long as nutrients remain in the drying stalk.

Bob

 

[Brown Thumb]

Dang Bob you still gots lots of energy.
I take my wife's scag mower to the stalks, then have the kids pull the plastic and driplines up.
then I hook the tiller up to the tractor and till up the roots, The kids then pick up the root balls.
My arse never leaves the seat.

 

[Floppy2]

Hi Bob,

Is it absolutely necessary to remove roots from the soil for all varieties of tobacco? I did not know bugs could overwinter!

bjr

 

[Gavroche]

. Curious how the severed stalk continues to produce suckers, so long as nutrients remain in the drying stalk.

Bob

Yes Bob, and flowers say me Jean Paul Couvert of Semois Belgium...http://www.tabacsemois.com/

 

[Jitterbugdude]

I just leave them in the soil. The next year I till them under. Never had any bug problems.... besides aphids.

 

[deluxestogie]

Just off the top of my head, Brown Spot, root nematodes and Black Shank can overwinter in the roots.

Bob

 

[squeezyjohn]

Curious how the severed stalk continues to produce suckers, so long as nutrients remain in the drying stalk.

Bob

It's amazing isn't it? The green parts of the tobacco plants are still very much alive and will continue to try to use every last bit of sap left to make a quick flower and make sure it reproduces itself. I do feel cruel taking them off with all the effort they put in!

 

[SmokesAhoy]

Squeezy, I have some plants that were primed about half way up, then the stalk was cut and hung in the attic. They produced suckers, flowered and the pods while small, matured. I wonder if they have seed in them? I will look when I get home. The variety was a terrible cigar variety because apparently it was a great pipe type but I didn't know it then, be curious if any of the pods have seed and if so are they viable? Can't wait to find out.

 

[squeezyjohn]

I assume as the plants can self-pollinate without insects that there would be viable seed - probably not a huge amount, but enough!

 

[deluxestogie]

Even with open pollinated tobacco, most of the pollination (well over 90%) is still self-pollination.

Bob

 

[deluxestogie]

Deluxe Trash

I've mentioned the bottom leaf of my dwarf Columbian Garcia sun-curing on the stalk. Today, I decided to harvest that bounty, and roll a smoke with it.

The leaves not only sun-cured naturally, while still attached to the Columbian Garcia stalks, they were mostly held free from the ground.

In stemming them, I was careful to avoid retaining even the slightest shred of stem, since it had not yet fully dried. The wonder here is that I was able to find a workable binder and a wrapper from this trash.

For token thoroughness, I allowed the finished cigar to bask in the sunlight, turning it 4 times during its 90 minute stint. Sorry about the clothespin. I used no glue. Perhaps I should have allowed it to simply fall apart on its own, rather than smoke it.

Unlit, the "Deluxe Trash" smells like barely color-cured leaf. It did light surprisingly well, so there's something combustible in there. Burn was uneven, with a char margin, and an eventual light gray ash.

The taste is somewhere between aircraft cleaner and silver polish, in a good sort of way. Exhale through the nose: no aroma, but it stings.

Summary: Don't try this at home, kids.

I'm guessing that, since "field-cured" tobacco leaf often smokes well in a pipe, the leaf really needs to wallow in the dirt, with its moisture and maybe a rainstorm or two.

Bob

 

[Gavroche]

I noticed that the sheets of bottom are very peppered ... I too, made some small cigars ...

 

[deluxestogie]

I too, made some small cigars ...

How were they?

Bob