Kasturi x Amersfoort

[Tutu]

Elaborating on what has been discussed in How to Intentionally Cross Tobacco Varieties I am following up with a thread of the actual experiment. Bob has given us a very detailed explanation on the theoretical aspects of crossing tobacco varieties and I think the thread there should be reserved for the actual discussion of "how to do it". This page will be somewhat a blog of how I've attempted to cross two plants and how the cross will turn out. This should cover the first generation I am growing, as well as later ones if I ever manage to do so.

I've had four plants growing in my backyard for the past few weeks. Three of those were Amersfoort and one was Kasturi. Pictures can be seen in Amersfoort in Indonesia. Amersfoort is a variety from the Netherlands used for pipe blends and cigars. Kasturi is an Indonesian sun cured variety. The two are completely different plants. Amersfoort has thin bright leafs, whereas Kasturi has thick, rugged, dark green leafs. I have been planning to cross them ever since they were small plants, and I am lucky that they were flowering about the same time. I picked one Amersfoort plant for this cross-fertilising. Out of three, one had been topped, and one looked a bit better than the other. Kasturi was a bit later to flower, and it were the first seven flowers which I crossed. Six of them turned out as they should, although some pods are bigger than others. After there were more Kasturi flowers I also made Amersfoort x Kasturi crosses. I have quite a number of seedpods that turned out as they should. All seedpods are drying at the moment, and I will get the seed soon.

The intention is to grow a few plants of both Kasturi x Amersfoort, as well as Amersfoort x Kasturi to see how they turn out. The interesting part would be to see whether there are certain characteristics shared by all K x A crosses and others by the A x K, and whether they are the same characteristics with the plant of which the female pistil was used. More on the theory in Bob's How to Intentionally Cross Tobacco Varieties thread. It's a must-read to fully get why I'm doing this here. I intend to find a plant that I like among the grow outs, one that looks interesting, and continue to breed with it. Maybe breed with a few. I am not sure where I'm going to end up with. I'm interested to cure the leaf and see how it turns out. All in all I hope to have some fun with this project.

I'll be posting some pictures later on. There were already some pictures posted in the other thread, but I've progressed a bit since then, so there will be new pictures.

 

[Tutu]

Pictures of those involved in the experiment. On the far left is the Kasturi I used, and the Amersfoort right beside it is the other plant included in the program. What follows are two pictures of harvested leaf. The first is Kasturi leaf, the one after that with all the white spots is Amersfoort. The leafs higher up the Amersfoort were not as badly spotted as the ones on the pictures, but those leafs were smaller.

 

[Tutu]

Let me continue and post some photo's of cross fertilizing. I will start by showing how the Kasturi x Amersfoort was done.
That means, in this scenario, Kasturi female pistils are used, Amersfoort male anthers have been used.
I think the images pretty much speak for themselves. Anyway, it's me working with a pair of tweezers. Then an opened flower that has not yet made any pollen. You can see how I mark a crossed flower with an elastic band. I close them up with some cloth, as well as closing the flower head as a whole. You can see that the Amersfoort plant that was used in this experiment is right behind it. Some zoom-ins of seedpods that have formed a few days later, as well as the seed pods that have dried and turned into a nice brown colour.

 

[Tutu]

I will continue with just a few more pictures of Amersfoort x Kasturi.
So these are the other way around, in terms of female and male parts.
This is me taking some male parts of the Kasturi plants. I first covered the Amersfoort with cloth too. I thought it would protect the flowers from the pouring rain, but I felt that it didn't do the flower head much good so I removed it later on. In the picture at night-time you may spot the Kasturi plant on the left of this Amersfoort plant. Growing seedpods and open flowers, as well as some seedpods as a result of crossing. I hope this gives an accurate view of what I did.

 

[deluxestogie]

Very nice work and documentation.

Bob

 

[Isabel]

Being involved in this cross fertilization process as his personal assistant, I can say that I have never seen someone that devoted.
With utmost care was he handling this process as well as every day making sure that the seed pods do not run to waste because of the pouring rain.
It would be really nice to see these seeds germinate and eventually being able to smoke the leafs!

 

[Tutu]

I collected seeds of Kasturi x Amersfoort and Amersfoort x Kasturi and kept them separate. As the first mentioned was ahead of the other, I have some seed of it germinated already. The other is on it's way.

 

[Smokin Harley]

Now that you have crossed the two both ways ...whats your next plan of attack? Recrossing the resulting hybrids within the same seed pods or separate seed pods ?
What are the traits you are striving toward?
Good work. Looks warm there...we're at 20*F and under a winter snow storm watch.

 

[Tutu]

Plan of Attack

First I want to grow both crosses and see what I get from it. The Kasturi cures to a nice reddish colour but it is very thick. Too thick to be a proper wrapper leaf. The Amersfoort on the other hand is very thin. I'd like to see if I can get somewhere in between. If not, I'd like to see if there's anything else that is interesting enough. I can't wait to see...

Second, I am going to try and make the variety stable. Or at least attempt to do so. I know a guy who crossed a Criollo and told me that after a few times of self-fertilising the cross started to become more and more like Criollo itself. If that happens with, say, the Kasturi, I am going to back-cross it to Amersfoort to stay somewhere in-between the two varieties. But that's all speculation.

It's about 83°F around here this week which is rather chilly for Indonesian standards. Humidity is at 84%. Lots of rain these days.

 

[Hasse SWE]

Really interesting project, I wish you good luck with it!

 

[Tutu]

K x A

The first update 2017 on the Kasturi x Amersfoort. I thought it would be worthwhile to mention that I have selected 14 of the best Kasturi x Amersfoort seedlings. Unfortunately there is only a single Amersfoort x Kasturi seedling that has survived my being away during December and January. Of these 14 seedlings I will place 7 outside the house and 7 inside the house. Outside the house means a warm temperature in the morning, a lot of humidity in the afternoon. Inside means that it is much cooler during the night because of the air-conditioning. It will also be relatively more cool in the morning, and not as humid in the afternoon as those placed outside. For me this is a good way to see what these little fellows like, and what I should be doing with my other plants. I hope they like the colour pink...

 

[Tutu]

7 / 14

I'll be working solely with the Kasturi x Amersfoort as the single Amersfoort x Kasturi did not make it. The 14 seedlings I've seperated 7 by 7 and kept them in different places. One place definitely prompted them to grow much faster. Those 7 have now been transplanted into their final containers. Although I am aware that a sample size of 7 or even 14 is not ideal for this experiment, I'll just keep it going nonetheless. I hope to see something nice emerge from it which would be a new saving point. It's game on!

 

[deluxestogie]

Those seven plants look healthy. Good luck with the project.

Bob

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I think you should give it a name. Something you can say ten times fast. Like Kasfoort, or De Vries 1, or something.

 

[Charly]

I look forward to seeing what the plants will look like when they'll be mature !

 

[greenmonster714]

Yes, very interesting thread. Those plants look great. I look forward to checking out your progress.

 

[Tutu]

K x A

I will not give them a name until they become a stable variety. For now, they are only just a cross. I don't mention their name often, I only read them of the label I made, where I call them K x A. So I'll call 'em that here as well. It's already quite a bit faster. Ithink this is pretty much how the Dutch referred to their crossed varieties in Sumatra, the Deli and the Timor would be D x T with a number following their generation. We can think of a nice name later on, and Kasfoort sounds nice.

 

[Tutu]

It's time to look at some phenotypic characteristics of the KxA offspring.
There were 7 plants on the front run to become adults.
1 of them has died, and 1 of them develops slightly awkward.
It seems to be struggling with some kind of curly virus.
That plant has been moved to another area in the garden.

That leaves us with remaining plants.
It is interesting to see how 4 plants very much resemble the Kasturi.
Between those four there is not much variation.
However, the 5th plant is quite unlike the others.
Although it doesn't differ much in shape, it does in colour and size.
It is smaller than the 4 others, and much brighter.
It looks a bit more like it's father (Amersfoort) than the other siblings.
Here are two pictures for comparison.

 

[greenmonster714]

I see what your saying. Man, them some pretty plants. Nice big green leaves. No bug holes..lol. Your like the container king of the site Tutu..lol. Great stuff.

 

[Tutu]

Easter has given me some more observation time. I've noticed something fairly interesting. The four plants that look much more like Kasturi seem to be struggling quite a bit with a lengthy day of sun. Up until now we've had days where there was sun in the morning and rain in the afternoon. The past two days were full sunny days. So these four plants have their leafs hanging badly. I know it happens, no worries. But interestingly, the plant that resembles Amersfoort in it's colour and life size (not shape) seems to have no problem at all with the heat. The fun part is that you would expect Kasturi to do well in the heat, being an Indonesian variety, whereas you'd expect Amersfoort to be struggling a bit more, being Dutch. So the plants that look more like Kasturi are actually struggling, and the one specimen that looks more like Amersfoort than the others is doing fine. I've made an attempt to catch it in a shot. They look like they are completely different varieties. I'll have you know they are brothers: