Late season curing suggestions?

[mrthing2000]

I got a rough start to my first attempt, and I'm guessing these will be done in late October or so. We usually get a first frost in mid-November. Not the best time to try to dry something. Seems like my main issues will be temp, humidity, and airflow.

I'm not sure if doing it in an insulated garage or shed is a great idea. I'm inclined to try pile, kiln, and air curing but not sure what I should do about the cooler temps, airflow, and humidity issues.

Also, dummie question--but does the curing method change the flavors? Would it not be a good thing to air cure a flue-cured type, or vice versa? Does it matter?

 

[ProfessorPangloss]

I'm also somewhat of a n00b, but I've read a lot of the site, so let me try to point you to some concepts. Maybe I'll save one of the veterans some typing; maybe not.

yes, there are differences in the type of cure. Different methods work on different varieties and different climates for different final products. What are you growing, and what are you growing it for? Here in Kentucky, much commercial tobacco (in the east/central part of the Commonwealth) is burley. It's cut by the stalk in September or thereabouts, and hung in ventilated barns to air cure. Air curing is just drying under certain humidity conditions. You want to average 50% humidity, from what I understand. I will be making vents in my shed and hanging my leaf there. Around here, you see the tobacco being "housed" as it's cut in September, and it takes all winter to strip, grade, and bale, and then you see it in big bales on trucks being delivered all spring. I saw a crew emptying a barn with forklifts as recently as April or May.

Anyway, flue curing uses heat to affect certain compounds and bring out sugars, colors, and flavors. It's not an either-or scenario. Ditto for fire curing and sun curing. If you're growing virginia leaf, you might want to look into flue curing, or just buy Don's from WLT.

Your main issue is probably going to be keeping low enough humidity not to create mold. An inside space might be great for this, but you'll need to figure out how to manage it, and you probably don't want to hang leaf in your rec room for a year to age it. That's where the kiln comes in, but you need to have everything air dry first. Check out Bob's (deluxestogie) shed and fan arrangement, and some of the kiln builds on here.

Personally, I plan to air dry my leaf as correctly as I can, then process the Perique as Perique and the Catterton as cavendish. It'll take a year to do the Perique and the cavendish can be stored in jars, so that's my plan for dealing with it until next year when I can maybe build a kiln/flue curing box. Check out Stogie's device - it is possible to do both with one device, but there's a *lot* to know about how to flue cure. Read the threads under the curing forum, and pay special attention to the results people got with conditions like yours.

I could be wrong on some of this, but these are the major themes from what I've picked up. Maybe one of the veterans will chime in

verily, there is nothing new under the sun

 

[Chicken]

It would be wise to build a kiln...or set a room or closet in your house..a area you can get control of the elements...

Mold will be your main issue...your in a humid area..as I am

 

[deluxestogie]

I'll add a simple concept to keep in mind. When you harvest your leaf, either by priming individual leaves or stalk-harvesting, what you generally have is living leaf (green or sometimes yellow). The initial process (unless you are attempting a flue-cure) is to color-cure the leaf. Green leaf needs to be kept alive while it transitions to yellow. If it dries completely, it dies. If the leaves are still green (from chlorophyll) when they die, then your color-cure has failed. No do-overs. So, you need enough humidity to keep them alive, at least until they turn yellow. The transition from yellow to brown is coupled with the process of the leaves dying, so that second phase of color-curing can be as rapid as you want.

I hope for an average 72 hour humidity in the ballpark of 70%, until the leaf has at least yellowed. [I say "at least," because some varieties have no discernible yellow phase. They seem to go from green directly to brown--and that's okay.] What a fan in the shed accomplishes is to prevent pockets of very high humidity (e.g. trapped between leaves). The fan strives to make the average humidity the same throughout the shed. It can't lower or raise the average humidity. The fan does not prevent mold. It just makes the humidity more uniform within the shed. An average humidity in the range of 80% or higher will encourage mold growth.

Opening a shed at night (when the humidity is often higher), and closing the shed during the day can increase your humidity. Do the opposite if you need to reduce your humidity.

One impact of humidity during the browning phase of color-curing is that higher humidity will yield darker leaf; lower humidity, lighter leaf. I usually consider that aspect to be beyond my control.

Color-curing:

• green to yellow: living leaf
• yellow to brown: dying leaf

How a grower goes about handling color-curing is highly dependent on his or her weather immediately after harvest. This, of course, varies from one locale to the next, and varies from early harvest to late harvest. So how one grower addresses the challenge of color-curing may or may not be applicable to your own situation.

Bob

 

[mrthing2000]

Thanks everyone! I'll see if I can figure out how to control the humidity. If it is too low its easy to add a humidifer with an on/off control switch--I use a PID controller for temp controls on my microbrew and smoker. There are similar humidity controls that could turn a humidifier on/off if it were too low. If it is too high, I'll have to figure out a dessicant setup to pull out that excess humidity.

Its going to be a real challenge to cure it--and I thought growing it was hard (at first)!

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Thanks everyone! I'll see if I can figure out how to control the humidity. If it is too low its easy to add a humidifer with an on/off control switch--I use a PID controller for temp controls on my microbrew and smoker. There are similar humidity controls that could turn a humidifier on/off if it were too low. If it is too high, I'll have to figure out a dessicant setup to pull out that excess humidity.

Its going to be a real challenge to cure it--and I thought growing it was hard (at first)!

I have a portable air conditioner which has a dehumidification setting. You might look at that option. You might even know someone who would lend theirs to you, seeing as I assume you're talking about the cool wet Pacific Northwest autumn weather.

 

[mrthing2000]

So does air-curing have a different flavor than some other method for the same type of tobacco? Would I be missing the point to air cure a flue-cured variety or vice versa?

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

So does air-curing have a different flavor than some other method for the same type of tobacco? Would I be missing the point to air cure a flue-cured variety or vice versa?

Flue curing prevents the degradation of the natural sugars in the tobacco. If you air cure flue cured tobacco, it will still taste like flue cured tobacco, but it won't be as sweet. I have read that experiments in flue curing Burley makes it harsher and less enjoyable. I don't know the science on that one. Sun curing is in between air curing and flue curing in regards to maintaining sugar levels. I believe you are safe to air cure pretty much everything, and flue curing isn't recommended for everything

 

[Jitterbugdude]

. If you air cure flue cured tobacco, it will still taste like flue cured tobacco, but it won't be as sweet.

I totally disagree with this statement. An air cured flue variety will taste nothing like a flue cure flue variety. If you air cure a flue variety and plan on using it in a cigarette mix you will be disapointed.

 

[Knucklehead]

So does air-curing have a different flavor than some other method for the same type of tobacco? Would I be missing the point to air cure a flue-cured variety or vice versa?

I sun cure my flue cure varieties and my orientals and am happy enough with the results that I feel no strong urge to build a flue cure chamber. Other members have built flue cure chambers at home and have had good results flue curing their flue cure varieties and some Orientals. Orientals are traditionally sun cured. I air cure the Burley, Dark Air, Maryland, and all the cigar varieties.

 

[deluxestogie]

I think the key to enjoying air-cured flue varieties is to plan on kilning the leaf. While flue-curing pretty much completes the necessary chemical transitions (is a specific, low pH way), kilning will dramatically mellow any air-cured leaf.

Building a kiln requires little skill, a day or two of labor, typically costs under $100, and makes a world of difference.

Bob

 

[mrthing2000]

I've been pulling some suckers off--probably not true 'suckers' but I'm still learning what to keep and what not to keep. Some of these are around the size of my hand. Can I dry/cure these? I was thinking I could at perfect the technique. But these ones aren't yellow.

 

[Chicken]

It really depends on if you got the space...any leaf the size of my
Hand is a keeper

 

[Knucklehead]

I've been pulling some suckers off--probably not true 'suckers' but I'm still learning what to keep and what not to keep. Some of these are around the size of my hand. Can I dry/cure these? I was thinking I could at perfect the technique. But these ones aren't yellow.

A sucker will form at the juncture of each of the true large leaves and the main stalk. It is an attempt by the plant to put on more stems so it can create more seed heads. You do want to pull these off so plant energy goes to the big main leaves instead of sucker production. Suckers will come out like crazy after topping, not so much before. Some varieties sucker more and earlier than others.

 

[mrthing2000]

Some leaves are pretty big, others are forming in the center bud. How do I know which are suckers?

I've been pulling off the bottom leaves to give the plants a bit of height, and I noticed those leaves often got shaded and looked sad and pale. I wonder if I should have left them on.

Random question but if the leaves fall a bit and touch the ground, are they basically done for (like they will rot?). The wind sometimes knocks the weaker ones down and a bit of imprecise watering can do that too. I've been pulling them off if they hit the ground but don't know if I should let them 'bounce back'.

Jeez, lots to learn this first year! I haven't trusted my plants to weather the storm and probably baby them too much.

 

[mrthing2000]

Do you only kiln the flue-cured type? I may build a kiln. I figure I'll need one eventually. A flue would be neat to build but sounds daunting. I like to smoke meats and things and would love a smokehouse but the ole lady won't allow something big enough to do it.

Even if I don't build a kiln, I'm thinking of building an air cure chamber that can keep the humidity and temp spot on. I don't trust that I can keep the humidity low enough in the late Fall here in SW Washington. Humidity being too low won't be a problem. I am trying to figure a way to keep it from getting too high--like some sort of dessicant or appliance--but not something huge like an air conditioner. Not sure how to de-humidify the air if it gets to 100% for example. I'll use a couple of PID controllers for heat and another for humidity.

 

[deluxestogie]

You can use a kiln to "age" any tobacco.

If you can build an air-curing chamber, you can use it as a kiln, by simply making a good seal, decent insulation, and adding a Crockpot with a controller. The box is basically the same.

Relative humidity is temperature dependent. A simple, indirect way to reduce ambient humidity is by increasing the temperature. If the RH is, say 80%, then increasing the ambient temperature by 20ºF will drop the RH by half (down to 40% in this example). So a gentle reduction of humidity will come about by raising the ambient temp by 5, 10 or 15ºF. That was the origin of fire-curing tobacco. Early growers were sometimes troubled by mold and rot in hanging tobacco. By building a small fire within the tobacco shed, the mold or rot was prevented. Separating the heat from the smoke (by using a flue to carry the smoke out of the shed, preventing it from contacting the leaf) was a later invention.

Bob

 

[Knucklehead]

Some leaves are pretty big, others are forming in the center bud. How do I know which are suckers?

I've been pulling off the bottom leaves to give the plants a bit of height, and I noticed those leaves often got shaded and looked sad and pale. I wonder if I should have left them on.

Random question but if the leaves fall a bit and touch the ground, are they basically done for (like they will rot?). The wind sometimes knocks the weaker ones down and a bit of imprecise watering can do that too. I've been pulling them off if they hit the ground but don't know if I should let them 'bounce back'.

Jeez, lots to learn this first year! I haven't trusted my plants to weather the storm and probably baby them too much.

Those bottom leaves are called "mud lugs". I leave mine on until about the time I top the plant. The mud lugs will help shade out weeds and grass under the plant and helps protect your big leaves from damage. I also notice they help brace up my seedlings when they are young (triangulation between stalk and the ground). I recommend that all first year growers harvest the mud lugs when they are ripe to get some practice curing before they give their big keeper leaves a try. The mud lugs will usually get torn and tattered by contact with the ground. They are weak in flavor and nicotine. I don't save them.

Suckers are new limbs that start where the big leaves meet the main stalk. As young as your plants are, you probably will not see suckers for quite awhile. When they do start showing suckers, pick them off. You want that plant energy to go to the big keeper main leaves.

Here's a picture of a sucker:

 

[ProfessorPangloss]

For what it's worth, my Perique plants are knee-high and have been in the ground for almost 6 weeks, and I just pulled my first few suckers a couple days ago.

 

[deluxestogie]

The mud lugs will usually get torn and tattered by contact with the ground. They are weak...

That's why they have designated parking at the bottom of the stalk.

Bob