Plug/flake project

[Matthew Evans]

I'm building a press for making plug tobacco. I've got the components for the press, and am placing an order with WLT to start trying some different blends out.

My current question has mostly to do with the tobacco I'll be ordering. I don't mind trying new blends every once in a while, but mostly I like to stick with what I know I like for a daily smoke. I smoke quite a bit too, so I'd like to get in the neighborhood sooner than later if at all possible.

That said, my preference is a dark fired blend. My all day, every day smoke is currently HH Old Dark Fired bulk, with the occasional tin of Orlik dark strong kentucky, Peterson irish flake, and HH Bold Kentucky. (And 8-12oz every month of straight black cavendish for when I'm walking around with my wife) I smoke pretty fast and hot, and those blends still don't give me tongue bite. That's a major consideration for me. Most virginias and VaPers blends I've tried bite me a bit after the second bowl or so.

I'm thinking of approximating something in between the Orlik and the Old dark fired.

My plan is to do 1# of dark fired, 1# Red Virginia, 1# of Dark Air Cured, alternating leaves throughout.
No toppings planned, just straight tobacco with some water if needed.

I'm thinking that pressing the tobacco and leaving it under pressure for a month or so in an elevated heat (140f or so) might work, but I'm new to the plug making thing, so not entirely certain.

In summary, do yall think the chosen tobaccos will achieve the desired taste and lack of bite result, or should I be thinking of adding/subtracting/substituting one of more of the three tobaccos? Any insight on the process would be helpful as well.

 

[deluxestogie]

My experience is limited with dark fire-cured tobacco as well as with the specific, commercial blends you are aiming for. I can say that it takes very little dark fire to give you that distinctive dark fire taste. So my first take would be just a bottom leaf and top leaf of dark fire for the leaf stack (call it "wrapper") of the press cake, with a pH balanced combination of VA Red and dark air in between.

I would suggest that you start with a shredded blend batch of just VA Red and dark air, in a ratio of about 3 parts VA Red to 1 part dark air. What you are searching for is bite on the tip of your tongue (too much VA Red) vs. bite on the back of your tongue (too much dark air). Once you establish a ratio that has no tongue bite at all (balanced), then you can incrementally add shredded dark fire-cured to that, starting with a very small amount of dark fire-cured. With good record keeping, you can probably find a happy combination from which to then build your press block for making plug.

Since you intend to press and heat the plug, you can probably lean somewhat toward tip of the tongue bite, with the expectation that it will soften during the pressing and heating process.

An additional approach might be to make Cavendish from a portion of the VA Red and the dark air, then add those to the available ingredients. Regardless, your nicotine strength will be pretty robust.

Of course, there may be other ingredients in those commercial blends. Some of the pipe tobacco review sites and some of the pipe tobacco on-line retailers include a precise or vague listing of ingredients, though seldom with specific proportions.

Good luck. It should be a fun project.

Bob

EDIT: Welcome back, by the way.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I recently made a carotte with one leaf of dark air cured and 6 of hand tied. I left it on top of my film dryer heater of unknown temperature, probably around 160/170°F for around 8 hours. It's similar in aroma to Drum rolling tobacco but richer in flavour with zero tongue bite. I don't know if that helps.

 

[Davo]

I’ve noticed the dark air cured to ramp up the nicotine in blends without adding too much of another flavour dimension.

While i enjoy the blends you mentioned and don’t find them too heavy, I probably wouldn’t be reaching for them as my everyday smoke (just to give you perspective of where my strength level sits, not saying they are shit. I’d love to smoke them all day! Lol). That being said, I blended up something using WLT, roughly 40% va, 40% burley, 10% d.a.c and 10% dark fired - it is good flavour wise but boy does it make my head spin.

WLT offer a halfzware kit - maybe try grabbing that and turning into a plug?

also check out this post as there’s a dude doing a similar hot press plug http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/threads/virginia-kentucky-flake.79854/

 

[Matthew Evans]

My experience is limited with dark fire-cured tobacco as well as with the specific, commercial blends you are aiming for. I can say that it takes very little dark fire to give you that distinctive dark fire taste. So my first take would be just a bottom leaf and top leaf of dark fire for the leaf stack (call it "wrapper") of the press cake, with a pH balanced combination of VA Red and dark air in between.

I would suggest that you start with a shredded blend batch of just VA Red and dark air, in a ratio of about 3 parts VA Red to 1 part dark air. What you are searching for is bite on the tip of your tongue (too much VA Red) vs. bite on the back of your tongue (too much dark air). Once you establish a ratio that has no tongue bite at all (balanced), then you can incrementally add shredded dark fire-cured to that, starting with a very small amount of dark fire-cured. With good record keeping, you can probably find a happy combination from which to then build your press block for making plug.

Since you intend to press and heat the plug, you can probably lean somewhat toward tip of the tongue bite, with the expectation that it will soften during the pressing and heating process.

An additional approach might be to make Cavendish from a portion of the VA Red and the dark air, then add those to the available ingredients. Regardless, your nicotine strength will be pretty robust.

Of course, there may be other ingredients in those commercial blends. Some of the pipe tobacco review sites and some of the pipe tobacco on-line retailers include a precise or vague listing of ingredients, though seldom with specific proportions.

Good luck. It should be a fun project.

Bob

EDIT: Welcome back, by the way.

Thanks. Some very good points. I'll be trying several of the things you mentioned. Not sure if I'm up to making cavendish at the moment, but definitely trying some small batches to get the blend in the neighborhood before getting more complicated.

Robust. Yes. Like the subject of a Ruebens. About 10 years ago I grew some tobacco starts from BigBonner, and some rustica from seed. almost all of the tobacco ended up with mold, maybe 1 pound was salvageable. a little over half of it was Rustica, the rest a mish mash of burleys/virginias. I smoked it anyway, just mixed it all up. It was decent, although very harsh, and just about the top limit I want the nicotine hit from my pipe tobacco. By far the strongest pipe tobacco I've ever smoked.

I recently made a carotte with one leaf of dark air cured and 6 of hand tied. I left it on top of my film dryer heater of unknown temperature, probably around 160/170°F for around 8 hours. It's similar in aroma to Drum rolling tobacco but richer in flavour with zero tongue bite. I don't know if that helps.

View attachment 34135
View attachment 34137
View attachment 34136

That LOOKS tasty. I do like the Five Brothers which, if I remember rightly, is similar to Drum, but a little "brighter". I dunno. Been about a year since I've had Five Brothers, and probably 7 years or so since Ive had Drum, though I don't think I ever smoked drum in a pipe.

I’ve noticed the dark air cured to ramp up the nicotine in blends without adding too much of another flavour dimension.

While i enjoy the blends you mentioned and don’t find them too heavy, I probably wouldn’t be reaching for them as my everyday smoke (just to give you perspective of where my strength level sits, not saying they are shit. I’d love to smoke them all day! Lol). That being said, I blended up something using WLT, roughly 40% va, 40% burley, 10% d.a.c and 10% dark fired - it is good flavour wise but boy does it make my head spin.

WLT offer a halfzware kit - maybe try grabbing that and turning into a plug?

also check out this post as there’s a dude doing a similar hot press plug http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/threads/virginia-kentucky-flake.79854/

I took a look at that. 40%/60% Dark Fired/Virginia Probably right up my alley.

I'll be playing around with a few blends I think, trying to get to what I like. I like really strong tobacco, but with a "lightly charred steak tips tied to a walnut and dragged through the dirt" taste rather than "in your face and its gonna hurt".

I quit smoking cigarettes a little over a year ago. For about 15 years I smoked a pipe every second cigarette or so. I ended up smoking about 1 pound of pipe tobacco a month, maybe 12 ounces. Now I smoke about 3 pounds of tobacco every month. And I've destroyed several pipes. I may need to get a few more so I have a more lengthy rotation.

 

[deluxestogie]

Not sure if I'm up to making cavendish

I summed up the simplest method in my single post yesterday, in the Cavendish thread.

Making Black Cavendish Pipe Tobacco

This thread has lots of great info but it is so long that it is hard to read all of it. Considering the process making Cavendish is there a significant difference in the results ( smokability etc. ) results from using cured but not aged leaf versus using cured leaf with a couple of years age...

fairtradetobacco.com

It's always a pain in the butt to do it, but once it's done, it's a new set of delightful blending options.

Bob

 

[GreenDragon]

Also make small test batches to start while you look for the balance & taste you want. A good size would be 1-2 whole leaves in total. That’s plenty to work with and quick to shred.

 

[Matthew Evans]

I summed up the simplest method in my single post yesterday, in the Cavendish thread.

Making Black Cavendish Pipe Tobacco

This thread has lots of great info but it is so long that it is hard to read all of it. Considering the process making Cavendish is there a significant difference in the results ( smokability etc. ) results from using cured but not aged leaf versus using cured leaf with a couple of years age...

fairtradetobacco.com

It's always a pain in the butt to do it, but once it's done, it's a new set of delightful blending options.

Bob

Good info as always.

Its not that I don't feel confident in my ability to make (or attempt to make) Cavendish. It more a matter of time and space. I've got a lot of irons in the fire at the moment, limited time, and I'll admit that the past two years has been quite a bit more stressful financially than I care to think about at the moment, so not a ton of cash to throw at even more tobacco to play around with.

I moved house and my business long distance a few months before everything started shutting down. I had anticipated a slow growth period this spring and summer, but that did not happen at all. As such, I am still working on my shop space, which is where I would do any tobacco related stuff, and I don't have a good space to set up, probably not until the spring. Especially since I am also remodeling the house as well, and have to do a switch back and forth between working on the shop and house to keep everything moving along.

I'm also trying to get set up for gardening in the spring as well, now that I have an idea of where on the property gets sunlight during the growing season, so I'll likely be growing some tobacco again, as well as my vegetables and herbs.

Off topic for this thread, but I do like that there is an astronomy section to this forum. I've always liked astronomy, and have started getting into astrophotography a little bit as well. Currently trying to find a spot to set up on the new property that I can do a polar alignment without being blinded/washed out by the one street light on the county road/alley on the neighboring property. I can get a good view of Polaris on an 8x8' spot on my property during the summer, might be able to move a bit and get out of the street lights influence now that more of the leaves are down on the neighboring property.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

It's no rush to cavendish. It's no rush to plug, or blend, or anything.

For the longest time I just cut up random amounts of leaf and stuffed them in my pipe and smoked it. All you need is a leaf, a pipe, a pair of scissors, and a lighter.

 

[Matthew Evans]

It's no rush to cavendish. It's no rush to plug, or blend, or anything.

For the longest time I just cut up random amounts of leaf and stuffed them in my pipe and smoked it. All you need is a leaf, a pipe, a pair of scissors, and a lighter.

Very true. And, I have done that myself. And will likely do that as soon as my WLT order comes in. . .

However. . .I'm in a bit of a good tobacconist desert. I've had really weird shipping experiences with the way online retailers ship their stock since moving, (anywhere from 1-3 weeks, with no rhyme or reason other than UPS Innovations strange logistical algorithms) Add to that the recent changes and inconsistencies in some of the blends I smoke, or the fact that I can't get some of it in bulk. . .

I'd like to get a jump on the process just so hopefully I can, sometime in the next year or so, have a relatively consistent all day smoke, rather than the roller coaster I've been sending my tongue on for the last 8 months or so. (Seriously, who thought that Old Dark fired needed MORE humectant/moisture? Took the last pound 1.5-2 weeks to be just dry enough to smoke.)

*I may sound like I'm in a rush or impatient. I've been told I come across that way when I write rather than speak. I am actually pretty laid back and likely more patient than is good for me. I do still want to get started on things somewhat soonish.

 

[Matthew Evans]

Well, just waiting on my WLT order. Prototype press is put together, should be ready to go. Think I'll line the plug cavity/cavities with parchment before adding tobacco.

I'm still thinking about the process a bit. I'll likely press, heat for a day, leave it pressed for a week, then take it out and see what sort of blend I've achieved. I've got a few dividers made up, so I'm planning on doing some smaller batches first to test the blends and process.

I made the press large enough to do larger batches if I get the process and blend figured out. Probably 8lb capacity if I make another plug tray, won't know until I see how much compression occurs per pound of tobacco.

Tray is approximately 4x18", 3" deep.



And if I don't, at least it'll be fun.

 

[deluxestogie]

That is beautiful work. I'm concerned about the 4" x 18" dimensions (72 square inches). If the wood screw can exert 1000 pounds of clamping force (I have no idea of what force they can withstand), that would come to only ~14 psi on the pressed plug. That may be plenty for pressing a plug, though I'm not sure. Perique is typically pressed at 35 to 50 psi. To get some idea of the clamping force, you can try pressing a bathroom scale beneath it.

Bob

 

[Matthew Evans]

Bob,

Thanks!

Very good points on the pressure being spread out.

I no longer own any mechanical scales. I might try my larger shipping scale, but I'm a bit leary of using a digital scale for this. It would probably be fine, but. . .

The wooden screws can exert a lot of pressure. Not sure precisely how much I manufacture them as part of my business. Book presses, clamps, woodworking vises, cider presses, etc. all get made with the wooden screws routinely, so it will likely be alright mechanically even if I can't get to the proper pressure.. On some older presses for veneers and flattening purposes the screws are doubled or have multiples spaced out.

If I find that one is not exerting enough pressure, I'll add two more screws and see how that does. I always expect to go through a few iterations of a design before reaching one that ticks all the boxes. This version is very stripped down. Once I settle on what works after trial and error, I'll build a new one and add all the curves and finishing touches this one lacks.

*Not sure how it translates, but I did use one of the screws in a similar setup to lift half of a 2 ton machine. Basically used it like a machinist jack. I'd have to look up a formula to see what pressure it had to exert on each end of the machine as it was lifting. I know one end had 3/4 of the weight. (Old engine lathe)

 

[deluxestogie]

The goal determines the method. Eight pounds of tobacco per batch requires big numbers. My inclination would be to make smaller batches, and press them in a box with a smaller surface area. (I prefer tiny batches, since I enjoy experimenting with new blends.) That would not be a meaningful solution for a factory production line of pressed plug, but does seem like a simple cheat for a home project. I usually approach a tobacco problem by asking, "What is the simplest way I can get the end product?" But I don't have the skills to make grand machines--only simple ones. So turning my own wooden screws is not an option.

Robot or human?

Bob

 

[GreenDragon]

I made this little press to make plugs. The interior dimensions are 2.5 inches square. I use it in my cheese press that can generate 150 lbs of pressure which translates into 24 lbs/sq in. That makes a nice compact plug.

Pure Tobacco Pipe Blends You Can Make

Long Red CAVEndish blend Long Red Cavendish 50% (8 parts per 16) VA Bright 37.5% (6 parts per 16) Perique 12.5% (2 parts per 16) Surprisingly full pouch aroma. Burns well. Unlike Cavendish that I've made of other cigar varieties, this doesn't smell like "cigar". Nicotine is medium. The...

fairtradetobacco.com

 

[Matthew Evans]

The goal determines the method. Eight pounds of tobacco per batch requires big numbers. My inclination would be to make smaller batches, and press them in a box with a smaller surface area. (I prefer tiny batches, since I enjoy experimenting with new blends.) That would not be a meaningful solution for a factory production line of pressed plug, but does seem like a simple cheat for a home project. I usually approach a tobacco problem by asking, "What is the simplest way I can get the end product?" But I don't have the skills to make grand machines--only simple ones. So turning my own wooden screws is not an option.

Robot or human?

Bob

Bob,

Quite correct. Same basic premise as any engineering question. How to achieve a goal simply, efficiently, quickly. Add any other pertinent information, then use that to design the answer.


The screws are something I have on hand at any given point, and the press frame was pretty quickly made. If I didn't have access to them, I'd likely have done something with a wedge or lever.

Just to be a bit contrarian, a screw is a simple machine.

Your goal. . . Small batches for variety. Mine, larger batches for consistency.

However, I do need the small batches to get to the blend I'm looking for. GreenDragons stacking box could do the trick, or I may make a few small boxes so that I can check each batch individually, swapping boxes out if needed, etc.

 

[Davo]

I use a screw press for plugs - about 2oz worth of tobacco at a time. I’ve found the trick is to keep doing a quarter turn each day

 

[Matthew Evans]

Tommorow evening is going to be fun.

Picked up 6.5 pounds to play around with. 9 varieties. Smoked a tiny bit of katerini right off. Was pleased as punch. Haven't had any good straight Turkish tobacco in a long time, and this stuff was spot on right out of the bag.

@ChinaVoodoo I skipped the scissors. Can now narrow the needed components down to leaf, pipe, fire.

 

[deluxestogie]

What a fun photo. Do snap some photos of the whole process.

Bob

 

[Matthew Evans]

Bob,

Will definitely do so. Decided to test out the dark fired. Tiny amount of bite/tingle on the sides of the tongue, but aside from that it's just about perfect as is. About halfway through the bowl right now. Will likely have to play around with it a little to cut the bite to 0 and bring up the nicotine a little.

I may try a pure Turkish plug as well. Maybe it was the 22 years smoking camel wides or non filters, but that katerini was perfect with no blending needed. Would be a nice light aperitif.

3/4 of the way through the bowl. Second relight. Burning to a nice fluffy ash. Maybe a tad wet burning. Bite nearly disappeared a little over halfway through the bowl. Would likely bite hard if I smoked a few bowls of it, or smoked it hot like I normally do. Been pretty consistent throughout, getting a little. . .cloying? Sorta like eating the third spoonful of barbeque sauce. . . "Dang that's good" "yeah, that's good" "ok, good, where's the burger?"


Yeah. This is going to be fun.