Temperature range in fermenting. How broad it can be?

[Primitive beard devil]

I just started to kiln my tobacco and I set my thermostat for the heating lamp to start heating at 40.5 C (about 105 F) and to stop heating at 48 C (about 118 F). Is this too wide of a range for temperature? It takes couple of minutes for the temperature to rise from low to high and about 10 minutes to drop from high to low.

 

[CobGuy]

Welcome to FTT!

Start here: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/key-threads-in-the-ftt-forum.3868/ ... there's so much info that your head will spin!

~Darin

 

[deluxestogie]

Welcome to the forum. Feel free to introduce yourself in the Introduce Yourself forum.

The width of your kiln temp range is not a problem. Fermentation can occur above about 60°F. The speed of fermentation increases rapidly with higher temps. I run my kiln at 125°F (it ranges from about 128°F down to 122°F, and runs pretty much to completion within 4 to 6 weeks. At those temps, the humidity can be very high, without any risk of mold. Mold will not actively grow above 120°F. These kiln temps don't kill mold, but can prevent any growth. I use a Crockpot as both the heat source and humidity source, and regulate it only by the temp.

A number of commercial tobacco operations intentionally keep fermentation in the range you are proposing, in order to avoid any leaf darkening (e.g. for very light CT Shade wrappers), but the humidity must be closely regulated to about 60% to 65%, in order to prevent mold. And the leaf must be hanging, with compete air circulation (using fans) to prevent overly damp areas. The duration required for thorough fermentation may be quite lengthy at such lower temps.

Bob

 

[Primitive beard devil]

Thank you for answering. I am fermenting that tobacco in a mason jar so humidity will be quite constant. I have also already shredded the tobacco and it is really small batch about 110 grams (about quarter of a pound).

Janne

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Humidity in a jar will remain constant overall, but with broad temperature cycling, you could generate condensation on the inner surface of the glass.

Speaking of water content of the tobacco: At the temperatures you speak of, if it is more moist than what you would smoke it at, it will probably mold.

 

[burge]

For fermentation temperature is not a factor it in essence is the pressure that the leave is under. Ie a tobacco bale the tobacco naturally ferments.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

For fermentation temperature is not a factor it in essence is the pressure that the leave is under. Ie a tobacco bale the tobacco naturally ferments.

Sorry, burge, but as with most chemical reactions, pressure, temperature, and concentration (relative humidity) are all factors.

 

[deluxestogie]

Increasing temperature accelerates catalytic (and enzymatic) reactions exponentialy. For leaf fermentation, the rate difference between 60°F and 130°F in in the range of a 100-fold increase at the higher temperature.

Bob

 

[burge]

Bob I always thought that was for the kiln and fermentation was something completely different. From my understanding fermentation is the process when under pressure the juices meld and cause the enzymes to react. The only way to get that reaction is to pile the leaves on top of each other.or press the tobacco. found something new in this article too they rotate the tobacco. https://www.neptunecigar.com/tips/the-process-of-tobacco-fermentation

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I see what you're saying.

There are different ways of fermenting. In each, the goal is to allow the process to continue to break down various components of the tobacco, chiefly amino acids, proteins and starches. The thing is, a bale which heats up on its own is a way to ferment. A kiln is also considered fermentation because... Well, because it works to approximate the same result. The exact nature of what is happening in a self-heating fermenting pile or bale of leaf is likely not the same as in a kiln, but they are both fermentation.

Most of us don't grow enough tobacco to ferment in bales and have to use a kiln.

 

[deluxestogie]

Burge, the article you cited is typical of what cigar marketeers, who have never touched a tobacco plant, write about a process they've never witnessed or undertaken.

"The weight and the natural humidity content allow the fermentation to start in the middle of the pile."

From a purely physics standpoint, if weight per se were relevant to fermentation, then it would start at the bottom of the pile, rather than in the middle. It starts in the middle (as I've stated numerous times) because the pile merely serves as thermal insulation for itself.

"Light wrappers and full bodied fillers are not fermented in the same way."

It is true that some manufacturers of light wrappers (e.g. Macanudo and H. Upmann) process their light wrappers in a peculiar fashion. But if I place my light wrappers into my kiln, alongside my deep dark ligero filler, and run the batch for a month, when they come out, I still have light wrappers and deep dark ligero filler--and their aromas have not mixed.

What I'm saying is that the websites of retail, commercial tobacco product vendors are rife with seemingly authoritative articles written by sincere people who are nonetheless completely unfamiliar with the production end of tobacco. They're writing someone else's rumor.

Bob

 

[burge]

In essence a press in fermenting. Take Dons lemon I fist press it into a 100 gram tobacco tub the end result is a really nice smoke and it tastes better. The way the leaves are stuck together the leaves ferment. In the past mentioned talking tobacco in the car on a hot day by accident allowed the tobacco to sweat. The heat variations in my apartment warm days cold mornings all affect the aging of tobacco. I would view that article as a guide. Last years lemon I put It on my radiator for a day each side for 12 hrs and made it really good. I have frozen tobacco in the bags and then let them thaw out and that can help. Letting it dry and remoisten a few times helps. Getting it super moist and letting it dry out a bit makes a difference. One thing I do know is fermentation is a different process than a kiln and the chemical reactions differ. The pressure changes the taste of the tobacco. I am willing to bet a single leaf in a kiln for a year would taste different than tobacco fermented for a year. using my fist method.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

It's a shame when we seem to be arguing purely because of semantics, (i.e. over terms.) The truth of the matter, regardless of what we call fermenting, or a kiln is that all of the methods you mention do cool, unique things to the tobacco, and each is worth trying.

 

[deluxestogie]

When facts bump up against belief, the facts always lose.

Bob

 

[burge]

Trying not to argue. Just stating personal experience in aging tobacco. And writing at 12am being super tired