Tobacco - India varieties

[mgirotra]

Hi everyone..

Being in India, its a bit of a disadvantage if you start leaning towards rolling your own cigars, since Indian Tobacco industry and the associate supply chain is more geared towards the smokeless products.. So pretty much dependent on what i can import from WLT (and Indian Central Board of Excise and Customs is no walk in the park either) or what I can grow myself (which would be a long drawn exercise because of extremely hot summers here (mid day temp excess of 115 degrees, so will have to wait till July till i can plant them outside. ).

So on a whim i reached out to a semi corporate farm company based in West Bengal part of the country and managed to get them to send me some leaf samples of a few of their recently cured varieties. The product will reach me in about a week's time, but the guy was helpful and sent me some videos.. Being a total noob on this have no clue whether it looks useful or not. Any thoughts / comments would be highly appreciated. Also, i got a small video of their farm a month before the harvest. Would that video tell us something about the variety of tobacco bein grown. In local language, they call it "Jati" and "Motihar"


I plan to ferment them in a kiln for 6 weeks or so and take a swing at putting together a stick.. Thoughts ?

 

[deluxestogie]

The video links are all marked as "private", so I can not view them.

USDA ARS-GRIN holds one accession (with photos and data) called Jati, from India:
PI 405642
which is classed as "cigar filler", though the nicotine appears to be quite high.

Motihar is a variety of Nicotiana rustica.

Given a choice of those two varieties for making cigars, I would suggest the Jati.

Bob

 

[mgirotra]

The video links are all marked as "private", so I can not view them.

USDA ARS-GRIN holds one accession (with photos and data) called Jati, from India:
PI 405642
which is classed as "cigar filler", though the nicotine appears to be quite high.

Motihar is a variety of Nicotiana rustica.

Given a choice of those two varieties for making cigars, I would suggest the Jati.

Bob

Hi Bob..

Have tried to fix the video issue.. Please check again. Also, fermentation in the kiln should reduce nicotine somewhat.. right ?

 

[deluxestogie]

Nicotine is not affected by kilning or fermentation. I now can see the video links. Thanks.

Bob

 

[Knucklehead]

A member here owns www.northwoodseeds.com and sells many wonderful tobacco seed. He bags the seed head so the seed varieties remain pure and the seed are germination tested in a lab.

Northwood Seeds Providing organically grown seed for home gardeners

 

[mgirotra]

So managed to procure some fresh crop from a local farmer (Jati variety). 15-20 days of curing in very hot weather (90-95 degrees during the day). Going into my makeshift Styrofoam kiln tomorrow. I know its a long shot, but the leaf seems to be in pretty decent condition.

 

[mgirotra]

btw, to the experienced eyes (and we have a lot of them here), does the leaf seem good, bad, ugly ??

 

[Knucklehead]

btw, to the experienced eyes (and we have a lot of them here), does the leaf seem good, bad, ugly ??

Very pretty leaf. Are there tinges of green or is that just the lighting? If they are drying green you may need to increase humidity or crowd the leaf closer together during cure so they don't dry quite so quickly. They need to stay alive long enough to yellow, then they can be allowed to die so they can brown and dry out. Some of that green tinge may come out during ferment.

 

[mgirotra]

Very pretty leaf. Are there tinges of green or is that just the lighting? If they are drying green you may need to increase humidity or crowd the leaf closer together during cure so they don't dry quite so quickly. They need to stay alive long enough to yellow, then they can be allowed to die so they can brown and dry out. Some of that green tinge may come out during ferment.

You are right.. there are blotches of green in between the brown. I just got the bunch of 200 such leaves today thru post. I am told these were harvested between 2-3 weeks back. Should i cure them in air for sometime, or moist them up a bit more and start fermenting right away ?

 

[Knucklehead]

You are right.. there are blotches of green in between the brown. I just got the bunch of 200 such leaves today thru post. I am told these were harvested between 2-3 weeks back. Should i cure them in air for sometime, or moist them up a bit more and start fermenting right away ?

If they dried out with green (dry, dry) most of it will remain, but some may come out with fermenting. If it arrived moist while still curing, transitioning from green to brown without fully drying first (doubtful due to mold concerns, unless your environment is just naturally dry), air curing will finish it off. You can try further air curing or even finish it off in the sun and see what happens. Then ferment, rest the leaf a week or so, then taste test. It's hard to know for sure without knowing how it was handled and dried. Two weeks does seem like a short period. I want my stems crispy, crunchy dry before I rehydrate for handling and storage. The stems are the last to dry and can promote mold if they look dry outside but have moisture on the inside. The inside moisture will spread to the outside and mold when exposed to air.

 

[mgirotra]

well, given its now over a 100 degrees here with RH <40% maybe hanging it out in a bit of a shade for a few days should take care of it ?

 

[mgirotra]

If they dried out with green (dry, dry) most of it will remain, but some may come out with fermenting. If it arrived moist while still curing, transitioning from green to brown without fully drying first (doubtful due to mold concerns, unless your environment is just naturally dry), air curing will finish it off. You can try further air curing or even finish it off in the sun and see what happens. Then ferment, rest the leaf a week or so, then taste test. It's hard to know for sure without knowing how it was handled and dried. Two weeks does seem like a short period. I want my stems crispy, crunchy dry before I rehydrate for handling and storage. The stems are the last to dry and can promote mold if they look dry outside but have moisture on the inside. The inside moisture will spread to the outside and mold when exposed to air.

Also, on drynes, they feel like a thin starched cloth on touch. not very crinkly and they fold up pretty easy.. so am assuming that they are not totally dry.. Have hung them out to dry (literally) in shade..

 

[mgirotra]

In Sunlight, quite a bit of green.. Hopefully a few days will sort some of it out.. Havent seen any indications of mold yet.

 

[Knucklehead]

In Sunlight, quite a bit of green.. Hopefully a few days will sort some of it out.. Havent seen any indications of mold yet.

In my climate, humidity is usually higher at night (unless raining). I try to think in terms of three day blocks of 'average humidity' over those three days, aiming for less than 70% average. Then start the timer again. I may have to open the doors during the day, close them at night. Trying to trap humidity, or trying to keep it out. Or wet the floor, or turn on fans. Spacing leaves closer together, or further apart so the leaves can share moisture, or expire moisture faster. All to avoid either drying green when humidity is low, or leaf rot if humidity remains high. My humidity can swing back and forth from day to day so manipulating my micro environment is critical for maintaining proper curing conditions. Some lucky members can just hang their leaf outside year round for curing and storage. I'm not one of them. Mine would mold or rot or dry green depending on the day. So I air cure in my shop, or sun cure, and I have to store my leaf in my basement with dehumidifiers running part of the year. Curing and storage is highly dependent upon where you live.

 

[mgirotra]

In my climate, humidity is usually higher at night (unless raining). I try to think in terms of three day blocks of 'average humidity' over those three days, aiming for less than 70% average. Then start the timer again. I may have to open the doors during the day, close them at night. Trying to trap humidity, or trying to keep it out. Or wet the floor, or turn on fans. Spacing leaves closer together, or further apart so the leaves can share moisture, or expire moisture faster. All to avoid either drying green when humidity is low, or leaf rot if humidity remains high. My humidity can swing back and forth from day to day so manipulating my micro environment is critical for maintaining proper curing conditions. Some lucky members can just hang their leaf outside year round for curing and storage. I'm not one of them. Mine would mold or rot or dry green depending on the day. So I air cure in my shop, or sun cure, and I have to store my leaf in my basement with dehumidifiers running part of the year. Curing and storage is highly dependent upon where you live.

For next 7-10 days, the humidity in Delhi is not expected to cross 50% at any time of the day and will pretty much fluctuate between 20% -45%. So you think the way i have them hung in shade (but outdoors) will work ?

 

[Knucklehead]

For next 7-10 days, the humidity in Delhi is not expected to cross 50% at any time of the day and will pretty much fluctuate between 20% -45%. So you think the way i have them hung in shade (but outdoors) will work ?

Yes. Unless they fully dried while green then they will mostly stay green. You can cut out the green parts if you don't like the flavor or use them for candela wrapper.

 

[mgirotra]

Yes. Unless they fully dried while green then they will mostly stay green. You can cut out the green parts if you don't like the flavor or use them for candela wrapper.

btw, is there a way to find if they are still alive or not ? Meaning a way to find out that if i put them on further curing in a 90 degree temp with 65% -70% humidity for a few more days, will that get rid of the green or no ?

 

[Knucklehead]

btw, is there a way to find if they are still alive or not ? Meaning a way to find out that if i put them on further curing in a 90 degree temp with 65% -70% humidity for a few more days, will that get rid of the green or no ?

I can't think of one aside from contacting the supplier.

 

[mgirotra]

These are the pictures of the hanging leaves 24 hours apart placed indoors with controlled humidity of 60-70% and temp < 85 degrees.. It seems the green color is fading out somewhat. Does this mean the leaves are still alive or is it me being optimistic ?

 

[Knucklehead]

These are the pictures of the hanging leaves 24 hours apart placed indoors with controlled humidity of 60-70% and temp < 85 degrees.. It seems the green color is fading out somewhat. Does this mean the leaves are still alive or is it me being optimistic ?

They look better to me, too.