Trouble starting Shirazi seeds

[CaptainAubrey]

I started several tobacco varieties this year and all are now growing tall except for Shirazi. I know it is too late to start seed but I keep trying so I will know how to handle it next year.

The seed starter I used is 2/3 peat moss and 1/3 potting soil. I sieve a bit through window screen to make a fine surface dust. I put starter mix in 3 inch pots, wet it, then sprinkle on the dust and mist it to get it wet. I drop the seeds on the surface and then cover the pots with foil. The plants come up in a few days. When they were about 1/4 inch tall I took them outside and set them under my big plants so they would not get direct sun. After a couple of days they laid over. Maybe it is too hot here. Recently afternoon temps have been 105-108F. Maybe they don't like diluted neem oil. We seem to have a heavy thrip load in this area and neem oil is effective. It does not hurt tiny tomato or tiny basil plants so I thought it would be OK for tobacco.

Your thoughts much appreciated.

 

[wruk53]

I started several tobacco varieties this year and all are now growing tall except for Shirazi. I know it is too late to start seed but I keep trying so I will know how to handle it next year.

The seed starter I used is 2/3 peat moss and 1/3 potting soil. I sieve a bit through window screen to make a fine surface dust. I put starter mix in 3 inch pots, wet it, then sprinkle on the dust and mist it to get it wet. I drop the seeds on the surface and then cover the pots with foil. The plants come up in a few days. When they were about 1/4 inch tall I took them outside and set them under my big plants so they would not get direct sun. After a couple of days they laid over. Maybe it is too hot here. Recently afternoon temps have been 105-108F. Maybe they don't like diluted neem oil. We seem to have a heavy thrip load in this area and neem oil is effective. It does not hurt tiny tomato or tiny basil plants so I thought it would be OK for tobacco.

Your thoughts much appreciated.

Sounds like your mix would be too compact and soggy, no picture, so I can't tell. Also, why cover with foil? If you cover with anything, it should be clear plastic or a clear dome cover. Here is the mix I use with excellent results: 2 parts peat, 2 parts perlite and one part vermiculite. The peat I use has added fertilizer, so no more fertilizer will be needed. This mix will hold moisture, yet it will be airy and light without being soggy. Excess moisture with no air is a recipe for disaster. Roots need air and moisture to thrive.
The pictures below are from my spring crop this year, they were started in a cabinet under lights, with no cover of any type. Just keep the mix evenly moist until your seeds germinate. Don't let the top of the mix dry out before the seeds sprout.

 

[johnny108]

Sounds like your mix would be too compact and soggy, no picture, so I can't tell. Also, why cover with foil? If you cover with anything, it should be clear plastic or a clear dome cover. Here is the mix I use with excellent results: 2 parts peat, 2 parts perlite and one part vermiculite. The peat I use has added fertilizer, so no more fertilizer will be needed. This mix will hold moisture, yet it will be airy and light without being soggy. Excess moisture with no air is a recipe for disaster. Roots need air and moisture to thrive.
The pictures below are from my spring crop this year, they were started in a cabinet under lights, with no cover of any type. Just keep the mix evenly moist until your seeds germinate. Don't let the top of the mix dry out before the seeds sprout.

What brand of peat do you use?
I wanna see what kind of fertilizer it has- your seedlings look awesome.

 

[wruk53]

What brand of peat do you use?
I wanna see what kind of fertilizer it has- your seedlings look awesome.

If you can't get this brand, just mix up some soluble fertilizer at about one quarter strength, or less, with water and feed and water your seedlings with this solution. At that strength, it shouldn't harm your seedlings. Add just a few grains of Epsom salts to the water also.

 

[plantdude]

I started several tobacco varieties this year and all are now growing tall except for Shirazi. I know it is too late to start seed but I keep trying so I will know how to handle it next year.

The seed starter I used is 2/3 peat moss and 1/3 potting soil. I sieve a bit through window screen to make a fine surface dust. I put starter mix in 3 inch pots, wet it, then sprinkle on the dust and mist it to get it wet. I drop the seeds on the surface and then cover the pots with foil. The plants come up in a few days. When they were about 1/4 inch tall I took them outside and set them under my big plants so they would not get direct sun. After a couple of days they laid over. Maybe it is too hot here. Recently afternoon temps have been 105-108F. Maybe they don't like diluted neem oil. We seem to have a heavy thrip load in this area and neem oil is effective. It does not hurt tiny tomato or tiny basil plants so I thought it would be OK for tobacco.

Your thoughts much appreciated.

Man, harsh! Babies, 105 lathered in oil and in unbreathable soil. Baste them then fry them. Should have just put them in direct sun and saved their suffering, lol. I would suggest an indoor setting for the babies in a well lit window until they get a few inches tall next time. Then a gradual exposure to the Texas inferno. Most varities can take the heat fine as adults, seedlings need more care to start.
I've grown Shirazi and it does well in the heat and drought once established. I wouldn't try that with seedlings though. Your potting soil is probaby only part of the problem. If you can keep the young seedlings in a more temperature acclimated environment (75-90 degrees) and be aware that any oil based product you add is likely going to increase the effects of high temps. Even on adult plants oil or detergent will damage the leaves in high temps and direct sun.

I also agree with @wruk53, ditch the foil and use Saran Wrap or a plastic dome. Tobacco seed is tiny and only provides a limited amount of nutrients. The young seedlings need light to make food very soon after germinating and they will appreciate the extra humidity the cover provides for the first few weeks of life. You can remove the cover part of the way or entirely depending on your humidity after about the first two weeks to avoid mold issues.

 

[CaptainAubrey]

Survey says...

I prepared 2 pots with @wruk53 's potting mix. In both I sprinkled 20-30 Black Mammoth seeds to have a good sample size. I covered one with foil and the other with clear wrap. I saw no difference in germination time. I used Black Mammoth as I have a lot of it and it starts fairly easily. Also I did not have enough Shirazi left for a meaningful experience. Next January I will try again with more varieties as I think the foil helped with some varieties but I did not have a control to test against.

Regarding neem oil. I used it because I had tiny plants less than 1/2 inch tall being bitten or damaged right at ground level. So they were too small to spray with forceful water to remove the pests. Next time I will keep them I need to use it I will keep them in the shade until a good bit larger. I will also try to just spray around the plant rather than on it. While not poisonous neem oil sure stinks and I sure if it was sprayed on large leaves it would make them stink. In addition I will treat the area with Spinosad. That will also knock down the horn worms.

BTW, instead of giving the dogs those expensive Comfortis tablets I just spray them down once or twice a month with the same Spinosad mix I use for the garden.

 

[Knucklehead]

BTW, instead of giving the dogs those expensive Comfortis tablets I just spray them down once or twice a month with the same Spinosad mix I use for the garden.

They are your dogs, but I would recommend other members look into that a little further. I wouldn't recommend it. It's available as tablets for dogs and cats or spray for livestock.

Spinosad Dose

SPINOSAD DOSE for DOGS, CATS, SHEEP & POULTRY against external parasites: fleas, mites, ticks, lice, blowflies, spinosad for animals, spinosad for livestock, ef

parasitipedia.net

Spinosad General Fact Sheet

 

[CaptainAubrey]

They are your dogs, but I would recommend other members look into that a little further. I wouldn't recommend it. It's available as tablets for dogs and cats or spray for livestock.

Spinosad Dose

SPINOSAD DOSE for DOGS, CATS, SHEEP & POULTRY against external parasites: fleas, mites, ticks, lice, blowflies, spinosad for animals, spinosad for livestock, ef

parasitipedia.net

Spinosad General Fact Sheet

Why would you not recommend it? It is a heck of a lot cheaper. Surely if they can ingest it they can tolerate it topically. I have been using it a couple of years and I heartily recommend it especially since the tablets don't suit one of my dogs.