How are leaves flattened before ageing and storage?

[deluxestogie]

If you are simply flattening the leaves for storage, then no pressure, other than your fingertips, should be required. If you are pressing a stack of leaf into solid block, then then 10 to 30 psi (pounds per square inch) is appropriate.

Bob

 

[UmbriaFarmer]

If you are simply flattening the leaves for storage, then no pressure, other than your fingertips, should be required. If you are pressing a stack of leaf into solid block, then then 10 to 30 psi (pounds per square inch) is appropriate.

Bob

No, deffo not trying to make flake, just wanted to age it like those pressed stacks you get when you buy froglegged filler from WLT etc, so will just use light pressure. Thank you again!

 

[deluxestogie]

When I visited the WLT warehouse in Akron, Ohio, some years ago, what I observed was that clumps of leaf were pried from a purchased bale, sprayed with water, then allowed to soften a bit. It was then separated and flattened by hand. This was allowed to dry-down, then weighed and slipped into their bags. Nothing magical.

Bob

EDIT: Another point is that frog-legged leaf was frog-legged prior to the seller packing it into bales, since the import taxes are based on weight. The frog-legging served to reduce the tax per leaf.

 

[UmbriaFarmer]

When I visited the WLT warehouse in Akron, Ohio, some years ago, what I observed was that clumps of leaf were pried from a purchased bale, sprayed with water, then allowed to soften a bit. It was then separated and flattened by hand. This was allowed to dry-down, then weighed and slipped into their bags. Nothing magical.

Bob

EDIT: Another point is that frog-legged leaf was frog-legged prior to the seller packing it into bales, since the import taxes are based on weight. The frog-legging served to reduce the tax per leaf.

Yes, and I've had them when they hadn't been separated but we're still a chunk with the individual leaves still stuck together. This is what I intend to reproduce with my old pillowcase mini bales.

 

[UmbriaFarmer]

BTW, tomorrow is 6 weeks day for the first priming. Looking forward to that. That plus my Italian old age pension starts!

 

[Hayden]

I did take a baking tray and put a 5kg weight on it while the leaf was in medium casw. It gets the job done and the leaf is flat. I reorganized every plastic bag this way.

 

[deluxestogie]

Best birthday wishes, @UmbriaFarmer.

Bob

 

[UmbriaFarmer]

Best birthday wishes, @UmbriaFarmer.

Bob

Thank you! Born 1959. How old are you Bob?

 

[deluxestogie]

I am 78 and counting.

Bob

 

[UmbriaFarmer]

I am 78 and counting.

Bob

Good on ya mate!

 

[StoneCarver]

When I said stone brick, I was really just trying to describe the shape. They aren't big, maybe 3"x3"x5" and maybe not even quite that big. I've found them to be real handy as a sort of third hand when I'm stretching leaf out to cut it for use as binder or wrapper because they have flat sides that are smooth/polished and hence will not tear the tobacco like a rough stone would do. Why do I have soapstone like this? Well, https://forum.wholeleaftobacco.com/threads/show-us-your-homemade-pipes.7426/post-228574

Bob makes a good point that too heavy of a weight could inadvertently press the tobacco like a plug and that wouldn't be desirable for cigar tobacco particularly binders and wrappers. It really only needs to be enough weight to hold the leaf down so it doesn't wrinkle too much when drying out. That's why I was thinking of cardboard with my soapstone bricks to keep the tobacco from pushing the cardboard up rendering the cardboard useless. Salt on a bird's tail doesn't keep the bird from being able to fly either. I do need to decide if I want to frog leg before flattening or wait till I'm ready to roll the tobacco into a cigar. I'm not sure I want those thick mid ribs in the stack of leaves whilst they are being flattened and drying out.

 

[UmbriaFarmer]

When I said stone brick, I was really just trying to describe the shape. They aren't big, maybe 3"x3"x5" and maybe not even quite that big. I've found them to be real handy as a sort of third hand when I'm stretching leaf out to cut it for use as binder or wrapper because they have flat sides that are smooth/polished and hence will not tear the tobacco like a rough stone would do. Why do I have soapstone like this? Well, https://forum.wholeleaftobacco.com/threads/show-us-your-homemade-pipes.7426/post-228574

Bob makes a good point that too heavy of a weight could inadvertently press the tobacco like a plug and that wouldn't be desirable for cigar tobacco particularly binders and wrappers. It really only needs to be enough weight to hold the leaf down so it doesn't wrinkle too much when drying out. That's why I was thinking of cardboard with my soapstone bricks to keep the tobacco from pushing the cardboard up rendering the cardboard useless. Salt on a bird's tail doesn't keep the bird from being able to fly either. I do need to decide if I want to frog leg before flattening or wait till I'm ready to roll the tobacco into a cigar. I'm not sure I want those thick mid ribs in the stack of leaves whilst they are being flattened and drying out.

Well I actually got on today and processed the first 10 or so hands that had been fermenting for 6 weeks and although fairly time consuming, it turned out to be much easier than I thought. As there was very little of wrapper quality, I decided to frogleg everything because, as you commented on, it wasn't working out well leaving the midribs in because they were messing up the stacks due to their size. So I put binder in one stack and filler in the other, worked each leaf through my hands to get it fairly flat, then just pressed the two piles under large wooden chopping boards. Just the weight of the boards was plenty to flatten the leaf well. Now I'm going to leave it out for a few days til I'm happy they're dry enough to avoid mould, then will store away for ageing.

 

[StoneCarver]

So, it sounds like frog legging before flattening worked well for you? Do you think it would have been more challenging to leave the mid rib in?

 

[UmbriaFarmer]

So, it sounds like frog legging before flattening worked well for you? Do you think it would have been more challenging to leave the mid rib in?

I tried but they just didn't stack or compress well. I don't know if you've figured out the quick rib removal (around your wrist) but it literally takes about 3 seconds and needs no tools. But nonetheless it took me about 2 hours to de-rib, stretch out and press those 8 hands (200 leaves). Totally worth it though. Today the stacks have dried nicely and won't mould, but I'm not going to stitch them up in the mini bales til the second priming is out of the kiln and prepped - another week yet. That was a much bigger priming then a week after that the biggest, the 3rd will be ready too. FYI, 200 leaves gave a froglegged weight of precisely 1kg. The only ones I won't be froglegging are the wrapper leaves as I shall be handling those precious items with kid gloves...