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2014 Knucklehead Grow Blog

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Knucklehead

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Another interesting comparison I'm making is to determine if Hacienda del Cura and La Palma Havana are different varieties or the same variety with different names. They are growing side by side in the patch. I'll update with some pictures once they have more growth. Both are from the Canary Islands, which was on the Spanish trade routes and they supposedly ended up with Cuban seed a couple of hundred years ago. I hope they are different.
 

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All pictures uploaded okay, but pictures from posts 396 and 397 have since disappeared. How do I recover them?
 

deluxestogie

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Knucks,
They are all beautiful--scenic, actually. I don't think any of the Cubans look Oriental. I do recall that Cuban planters constantly complained, well into the 20th century, that the Cuban seedling providers (traditionally separate enterprises) went to very little effort to separate one variety from another. So, "primitive" is probably applicable only to their agronomic practices, and explains the plethora of "Cuban" types.

Bob
 

JessicaNicot

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I would assume that the "Oriental" and "Primitive" descriptions from GRIN for Cuban tobaccos are incorrect, until proven otherwise.

Bob

I quote to you from a USDA publication (Catalog of the Tobacco Introductions in the US Dept of Agriculture's Tobacco Germplasm Collection; ARM-S-27/October 1982; ISSN 0139-3779): pg3 "Plant type was judged from the field appearance of each TI. Types assigned included burley (B), cigar filler (CF), cigar wrapper (CW), flue-cured (FC), Hungarian (H), primitive (P), pale-yellow (PY), Turkish (T), and no type identified (NT). Names are based on resemblances, not potential use."
"Cigar-filler.--Lines characterized as cigar filler have erect growing leaves that are narrow; some are relatively long. The plants are generally short, have close internodes, and are dark green. In some lines, the leaves are so long that they droop, and the ends may touch the soil. These types usually stay green until maturity, when the leaves go from green to brown. This is a large group and probably contains some dark-fired and cigar-binder types."
"Primitive.--All types described except primitive have a main central stem and do not branch very profusely until after the top is broken out. The primitive types are characterized by profuse branching, and many lines do not have a central stem. The plants are generally low growing with small leaves, which are extremely narrow. The primitive types bloom quite early and produce very few leaves, but the branches contain many small leaves."
"Turkish [Oriental].--The Turkish group contains lines that resemble Turkish or oriental cultivars. The Turkish group is variable and ranges from pointed- to rounded-leaf types. The plants so classified are small and have smaller leaves than most other types; some have leaves with naked petiole, and some of the plants lodge. The Turkish types flower early but produce a flower head that protrudes well above the top leaves [as opposed to Hungarian types that have a different morphology with recessed flower heads]. The classification in this catalog does not associate the type with the Turkish aroma characteristics."
 

Knucklehead

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What is that you have bagged I the center of the middle row? What kind of bags are you using this year?

My two Rusticas, Mahorka #6 Yellow 109 and Isleta Pueblo. They were the first to bud at maybe 18". Many Orientals and my seven Cuban seed varieties are beginning to bud now. Several will be bagged in the next couple of days.

I'm using 5 gal. paint strainer bags again this year.
 

Knucklehead

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I quote to you from a USDA publication (Catalog of the Tobacco Introductions in the US Dept of Agriculture's Tobacco Germplasm Collection; ARM-S-27/October 1982; ISSN 0139-3779): pg3 "Plant type was judged from the field appearance of each TI. Types assigned included burley (B), cigar filler (CF), cigar wrapper (CW), flue-cured (FC), Hungarian (H), primitive (P), pale-yellow (PY), Turkish (T), and no type identified (NT). Names are based on resemblances, not potential use."
"Cigar-filler.--Lines characterized as cigar filler have erect growing leaves that are narrow; some are relatively long. The plants are generally short, have close internodes, and are dark green. In some lines, the leaves are so long that they droop, and the ends may touch the soil. These types usually stay green until maturity, when the leaves go from green to brown. This is a large group and probably contains some dark-fired and cigar-binder types."
"Primitive.--All types described except primitive have a main central stem and do not branch very profusely until after the top is broken out. The primitive types are characterized by profuse branching, and many lines do not have a central stem. The plants are generally low growing with small leaves, which are extremely narrow. The primitive types bloom quite early and produce very few leaves, but the branches contain many small leaves."
"Turkish [Oriental].--The Turkish group contains lines that resemble Turkish or oriental cultivars. The Turkish group is variable and ranges from pointed- to rounded-leaf types. The plants so classified are small and have smaller leaves than most other types; some have leaves with naked petiole, and some of the plants lodge. The Turkish types flower early but produce a flower head that protrudes well above the top leaves [as opposed to Hungarian types that have a different morphology with recessed flower heads]. The classification in this catalog does not associate the type with the Turkish aroma characteristics."

That's interesting. I had assumed the classifications were based on the traditional use of each variety. The method for classification described above would certainly remove the hardship of investigation. A person could just pull up to a field and classify the plants with a visual look over. Were classifications made on location, or after USDA had grown it's own plants?

Based on the guidelines, I can see the Oriental classification, but not the primitive. Many have a growth habit very similar to my Tekkekoy Orientals, and are budding at approximately the same time as my Orientals.
 

Knucklehead

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Jessica, is your publication a hard copy or do you have a source for an e-book? (re: The Catalog of Tobacco Introductions) I can only find the hard copy, which is out of print and no used ones are currently available.
 
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