2018... My Most Challenging and Biggest Grow Ever--Levi Gross

[mwaller]

Very nice!

 

[Levi Gross]

I hate it when the pictures come out sideways even after you have rotated them. Anyway, here is what I have. The cats even got a piece of the pie. The Orinoko will have to be re-seeded or just not grown this year. I am considering sowing more Samsun-Maden as well. The new set up is going to serve me well for years to come. A good investment.

 

[mwaller]

Your trouble with cats reminds me that few weeks ago, I decided to put one of our dogs back in his pen in the garage because he had started chewing up random stuff around the house when we were gone. He handily chewed through the wire I had used to patch a hole in the chain link, and went about shredding everything he could sink his teeth into, including: 5 bags of WLT cigar leaves, half a dozen ziploc samples of pipe tobacco, a case of toilet paper, a case of paper towels, a bag of potting soil, a bag of pillow stuffing, and the lower half of the garage door frame. He even managed to nip down a few leaves from the Vuelta Abajo I was stalk curing...
Mind you, this is a 20lb poodle/bichon mix!

 

[GreenDragon]

Sounds like one of those dogs that needs a job to be happy. One of ours was like that. I almost started a web blog entitled "S**t my dog ate today". Then we started freezing his food in multiple Kongs so he would have to "work" for his food. Really cut down on inappropriate chewing. I'm also a big fan of rawhide chews. They get several a week and I really praise them when they are chewing them so they think they are doing a good job for me. Keeps their teeth clean too.

 

[Levi Gross]

I love my animals, but they are so destructive... One cat will eat any type of plastic he can get his hands on like the capri-sun straw wrappers and tampon wrappers out of the trash. It's never good because then hes puking all over the house until he passes it. They have shredded all of our dining room chairs and the cloth living room furniture as well. Hair, Hair and you got it more Hair. They think they are entitled to get on anything and are always horse-playing and getting into stuff. One of them is a plant lover but not in a good way, she will bare leaf anything or uproot it. And yet through all of this I cant stay mad at them. As I am sure you are still not mad at your Dog... Wow he needs to go easy on the tobacco though He for sure needs a job.

 

[JennyLeez]

Gee what sort of domestic pets do you guys have up there or maybe it is what you are feeding them
I have 3 manx cats (bobtails)(no tails) and 3 dogs. They sure dont behave like that.

Anyways back on topic. Your plants are doing great. Following all these blogs I am wondering why you dont just put your trays outside in the sun. Is your weather still cold up there? Mind looking at Bob's snow photos I guess the answer is yes.

My trays are out on my decking under clear nova roofing. That helps. Plus our temps are still up in the mid 20's. (68) but I still dont plant them out until quite big.

Cheers
Jenny

 

[Levi Gross]

Gee what sort of domestic pets do you guys have up there or maybe it is what you are feeding them
I have 3 manx cats (bobtails)(no tails) and 3 dogs. They sure dont behave like that.

Anyways back on topic. Your plants are doing great. Following all these blogs I am wondering why you dont just put your trays outside in the sun. Is your weather still cold up there? Mind looking at Bob's snow photos I guess the answer is yes.

My trays are out on my decking under clear nova roofing. That helps. Plus our temps are still up in the mid 20's. (68) but I still dont plant them out until quite big.

Cheers
Jenny

Thanks Jenny! The weather here is unpredictable snow one day and 50 plus degrees the next. As for the animals they are just nuts!!!

 

[Levi Gross]

I am looking for some advice in properly planning my patch its going to be 25x31 the lines inside the perimeter are the existing garden. It is also a raised bed so the lines are actually timbers. My yard gradually slopes to the north. I built it up two years ago so I could have a nice level patch to work in. I have never really tried to plan my garden and tobacco patch by the square ft. I've always just put them in the ground. Do you suppose 4 Sq. ft. for my largest types is ok or should I give them more space?

 

[deluxestogie]

1. Plan the aisles between the tobacco, so you can walk through without damaging fully grown plants.
2. I routinely use 3.75 sq.ft. per full-size plant.
3. I suggest two (or even 3) staggered rows (between row distance the same as between plant distance) with an aisle access along either long side of each set of staggered rows.

This is a portion of my detailed layout from 2012. They are separate beds, each 5' x 12', and the grassy aisle between adjacent beds is probably 6' wide. I'm not suggesting you follow such a plan, but it should give you a starting point for your own arrangement.

Despite the precision of the diagram, I never measured anything but the length and width of the beds. I then divided them into quarters, and just stuck the transplants in. You might consider my layout as 4 staggered rows per bed. For somewhat smaller varieties, I would plant 6 per quarter bed (2 x 3), and for small Orientals as many as 22 plants per quarter bed (6 - 5 - 6 - 5).

Some crazy arrangements (the long bed is narrow and 24 feet long).

Of course, you can go with traditional American practice, and just do single rows of plants that are 24-30" in row, and 3-4' between rows. The square footage noted at the bottom of the second diagram is for a half-bed (5' x 6').

Bob

EDIT: I arrange the plants by their typical height (found on GRIN), to avoid overly shading the southern and western sun.

 

[Levi Gross]

Thank you Bob, I was just going through your 2012 grow blog and absorbing that information.!!! Last night I went through the GRIN Database and made a note of all my plant heights, wks. to maturity etc... As of now I have 18 plants, "my largest ones" staggered rows 3 ft. apart 3 ft. row spacing, but each plant has 4 sq. ft. of growing space +. I really want to keep what I feel are to be my most prized plants inside the fence and may plot out other patches in the yard for others. I have 82 plants this year and only time will tell if I finish with 82 plants.

1. Plan the aisles between the tobacco, so you can walk through without damaging fully grown plants.
2. I routinely use 3.75 sq.ft. per full-size plant.
3. I suggest two (or even 3) staggered rows (between row distance the same as between plant distance) with an aisle access along either long side of each set of staggered rows.

This is a portion of my detailed layout from 2012. They are separate beds, each 5' x 12', and the grassy aisle between adjacent beds is probably 6' wide. I'm not suggesting you follow such a plan, but it should give you a starting point for your own arrangement.

Despite the precision of the diagram, I never measured anything but the length and width of the beds. I then divided them into quarters, and just stuck the transplants in. You might consider my layout as 4 staggered rows per bed. For somewhat smaller varieties, I would plant 6 per quarter bed (2 x 3), and for small Orientals as many as 22 plants per quarter bed (6 - 5 - 6 - 5).

Some crazy arrangements (the long bed is narrow and 24 feet long).

Of course, you can go with traditional American practice, and just do single rows of plants that are 24-30" in row, and 3-4' between rows. The square footage noted at the bottom of the second diagram is for a half-bed (5' x 6').

Bob

EDIT: I arrange the plants by their typical height (found on GRIN), to avoid overly shading the southern and western sun.

I feel that I could tighten things up a bit but wonder what its going to be like trying to work around them if I get to tight...

 

[deluxestogie]

I've planted tobacco in the patterns shown above for a lot of years. Since my beds are 5' wide, and there is nice, non-muddy grass running alongside each bed, I can stand on the grass, while never having to reach into the tobacco more than 30". Access is just not a problem.

Being overly generous with spacing may not be ideal for the plants. Although traditional American spacing seems quite generous, the soil between rows (that 3 or 4 feet of aisle) is highly compacted, by foot or mule or tractor tire, and offers little in the way of root growing space. Old-timers used to urge planters to promptly replace failed transplants in a row, since failing to do so in a timely way would cause the tobacco adjacent to the "missing" plant to grow rank and overly strong.

The close spacing of most Orientals actually determines whether or not you grow what you expect. I've grown a number of different Orientals at full, "American" spacing (i.e. 3.75 ft[sup]2[/sup] per plant). Many Oriental varieties managed like that will soar to 7+ feet in height, produce leaves that are triple the dimensions of the Turkish product of the same variety, and simply not have the Oriental character that we might anticipate. (That's why the USDA experiments of producing Oriental tobacco in the US failed during their trials--they did it the "better", American way, with lots of space and lots of fertilizer.)

I guess what I'm saying is that you should be generous with your aisle space, and appropriately stingy with plant spacing. If you go with the raised bed approach of "square-foot" vegetable gardening, the density is determined by the nature of the plants, while the width of the bed (or aisle width) is determined by ease of access.

Boy! I really got going on that. Sorry.

Bob

 

[Levi Gross]

Bob,
I am not so much into the traditional way either. It seems like a waste of good space. So let me ask you this... Part of my garden is raised bed that runs out south to level ground. My intention is to direct plant. No real raised beds like yours. Do you feel that my 3 ft. Between plants is appropriate with 3 ft. Row spacing. How would you adjust for best performance

I've planted tobacco in the patterns shown above for a lot of years. Since my beds are 5' wide, and there is nice, non-muddy grass running alongside each bed, I can stand on the grass, while never having to reach into the tobacco more than 30". Access is just not a problem.

Being overly generous with spacing may not be ideal for the plants. Although traditional American spacing seems quite generous, the soil between rows (that 3 or 4 feet of aisle) is highly compacted, by foot or mule or tractor tire, and offers little in the way of root growing space. Old-timers used to urge planters to promptly replace failed transplants in a row, since failing to do so in a timely way would cause the tobacco adjacent to the "missing" plant to grow rank and overly strong.

The close spacing of most Orientals actually determines whether or not you grow what you expect. I've grown a number of different Orientals at full, "American" spacing (i.e. 3.75 ft[SUP]2[/SUP] per plant). Many Oriental varieties managed like that will soar to 7+ feet in height, produce leaves that are triple the dimensions of the Turkish product of the same variety, and simply not have the Oriental character that we might anticipate. (That's why the USDA experiments of producing Oriental tobacco in the US failed during their trials--they did it the "better", American way, with lots of space and lots of fertilizer.)

I guess what I'm saying is that you should be generous with your aisle space, and appropriately stingy with plant spacing. If you go with the raised bed approach of "square-foot" vegetable gardening, the density is determined by the nature of the plants, while the width of the bed (or aisle width) is determined by ease of access.

Boy! I really got going on that. Sorry.

Bob

 

[mwaller]

My garden is short on space, so I grew my cigar varietals with staggered 18" spacing. They did fine. Frankly, I wouldn't want the leaves to get any bigger because they wouldn't fit in my kiln!

Bob,
I am not so much into the traditional way either. It seems like a waste of good space. So let me ask you this... Part of my garden is raised bed that runs out south to level ground. My intention is to direct plant. No real raised beds like yours. Do you feel that my 3 ft. Between plants is appropriate with 3 ft. Row spacing. How would you adjust for best performance

 

[deluxestogie]

Part of my garden is raised bed that runs out south to level ground. My intention is to direct plant. No real raised beds like yours. Do you feel that my 3 ft. Between plants is appropriate with 3 ft. Row spacing. How would you adjust for best performance

My beds are flush with the surrounding turf.

Post a drawing of what you have in mind.

Bob

 

[Levi Gross]

The first picture is facing south the second is north I plan on adding 10 ft. to the north leaving my current timbers in place to sustain the current bed. 7 ft. to the south will be added and 4 ft. added on the east side. This will all be fenced in with an 8 ft. gate on the south side.

My apologies Bob, had I been more observant I would have noticed you don't have raised beds.

Mwaller- I am currently contemplating the 18 inches...

I will also snap another picture of the 18 plants I have plotted on my graph paper.

 

[Levi Gross]

For the life of me I can't seem to figure out why some of my pictures do this. And when I do them over the old sideways one pops back up too after I thought it was removed from the post. Just turn your computers sideways gentlemen... LOL

 

[Levi Gross]

Also, don't get to observant on me. You will notice I have a width x width garden. according to my paper. Instead of width x length...

 

[deluxestogie]

That's the staggered row idea. An aisle, then place another set of three (and maybe even another aisle and another set). I would go down to 2' spacing for starters. You'll have tons of space.

Bob

 

[MarcL]

Is it possible that your not saving the files after you rotate them? I like this hosting site. https://imgur.com/upload

 

[Levi Gross]

I was rotating then saving but, somehow they come out wrong still. And the ones I thought were removed from the post come back up too.

Is it possible that your not saving the files after you rotate them? I like this hosting site. https://imgur.com/upload