And now for something completely different....

[Bex]

I have a diary....something that I thought was rather creepy as a teenager has now become a part of my flue curing life. Fortunately, as I would not remember much of what I've read, and would be forever looking things up, I have written every single thing down - each time I go to the chamber and see the temp/RH etc., I write it down along with the time, (and if I'm peeking, the condition) etc. In my little book I have what I have read about kilning. To be honest, I've looked through the 'burley' section here but didn't find much info. I remember from last year the suggestion about using the chamber as an 'artificial environment', considering that there is a possibility that in my conditions I may not be able to air cure. But I will try air curing in my shed first -keeping a careful eye on what's going on. Fortunately, as it will be hanging there, I will be able to 'peek' to my heart's content.

My 'diary' indicates that kilning should be 125F (or 120-130F/48-54C) and 60-80% RH for the month - with the crockpot on low, the lid of the crockpot on, and the possibility of having to add approx 2 cups of water every 2 days or so to the pot. Hopefully that's correct.

I have no updates. I STILL have not peeked...I am filled with pride....

 

[Bex]

Pah. I have no discipline. I looked.
I'm coming up on 62 hours. The RH (95%) and temp (95F) have been steady. I basically opened and shut the lid - the temp and RH didn't even quiver. But I sadly saw leaf that is still green, with no sign of yellowing at all - even the Burley leaf is still green. They must have read Bob's response above, heard me coming, put on their green costumes, and laughed hysterically at my dismay. I bumped the temp up from 95 to 100F. In any event, I will just monitor the temp and RH through the day, keeping it at the yellowing level. I should hit 72 hours by late this afternoon. I guess I will 'have' to look again, to see if anything miraculous as occurred so that I can head into wilting, or if I should sit at yellowing until morning.

In the very recesses of my pea brain, I wonder about the result from my last run - the dropping of the RH by opening the vent (to 52%) and the raising of the temp (to 120F) for 12 hours in wilting, and when the leaf was still green and I considered this a failure the closing of the vent (RH then raised on its own to 84%) and raising the temp to 135F in order to end the run, and suddenly finding yellow leaf 12 hours later. If I'm having difficulty with this run once I'm 12 hours into wilting, and as there is only 80 leaves in the chamber - so not a big run - I'm wondering if I will try to duplicate my 'error' from the last run....just as an experiment, to see if I can duplicate those results. Of course, none of this is supported by the science of flue curing. But I admit I'm curious.....

 

[Bex]

Dear Diary,
This morning, at 84 hours, I have gone into wilting, opening up the vent to drop the RH, and hiking the temp 108F to start with. The good thing is that with the vent opened, the RH dropped down to 94% from 98% almost immediately, which indicates to my pea brain that the chamber isn't totally saturated as has often been in the past. I will continue to hike the temp up slowly during the day, so that I hit just below 120F by this afternoon, and hold there until tomorrow morning.
A bit of an aside: many years ago, I stopped smoking for about 2-1/2 years or so. I was hanging out in bars, and people were constantly offering me cigarettes. For 2-1/2 years I said no, and then one night I figured I would just have one. The next day I had no urge for a smoke, and figured Ha! I can do this, just have a cigarette now and again. A few nights later, I had another. And another. It appears that when you 'open that door', it allows you to walk through and eventually go back to old habits. So, why do I tell this little story? Because yesterday, I 'opened that door' by peeking at my tobacco. Just once I figured - it can't hurt. Pah, this morning I walked through the door again....and looked. My bad. But the leaf is a nice yellowy/green, which makes me feel better than yesterday, where all the leaf was just green and I was disheartened. Sometimes, it's a good thing to open the door and walk through - if I hadn't started smoking again all those years ago, I would have never found this forum and the nice people on it. And if I hadn't opened the freezer again this morning, I wouldn't have been as elated considering what I found today. I say to myself...I will NOT continue to peek now, while the process is going on. Ah, but can I be trusted?

 

[deluxestogie]

Points on Possible Peeking Problems:

• peeking during yellowing may lower the temp -- not a big deal, unless you lose too much moisture (risk of drying green)
• peeking during wilting may lower temp and humidity -- probably just slows the process, and may increase browning
• peeking during leaf drying may reintroduce greater moisture and delay drying -- may cause sponging of previously dried leaf and leaf browning
• peeking during stem kill may reintroduce greater moisture and delay drying -- may cause sponging of previously dried leaf and leaf browning

At least according to the formal literature on commercial flue-curing, opening the chamber during leaf drying and stem kill present the greatest risk. According to a deluxe analysis of Bex, opening the chamber during wilting seems to encourage unhelpful modification of an otherwise successful cure schedule.

If you peek and nobody else knows, is it a problem?

Bob

 

[Bex]

If a tree falls in the woods......????
In my own 'defense', I only really have the urge to peek during yellowing and wilting. Once the leaf is in the right condition to head out of wilting, I no longer an overcome with the urge to look. During my last run, I only looked, in what might be considered leaf drying, as I was shutting down the run, and had jacked up the temp and shut the vent so that leaf drying would occur, assuming that all was lost. I wasn't really checking that following morning when I opened the freezer - I was actually opening it to prepare to turn everything off and dump the 'candela wrapper' that I anticipated inside. It was only when I found yellow leaf, that I went on to continue to run.
In other runs, when I positioned the leaf racks equidistant throughout the container, I did have to open the container now and again during yellowing to wipe the condensation down off the lid - it would be practically raining inside the container. Being able to look at what was going on, while I was wiping the lid of the container down, was somewhat of a plus. But I have found that by keeping the racks closer to the middle, and the leaf away from the sides of the container, this no longer occurs.
I do thank you for the insight above, and will swear on my granny - wherever she may be - that I will not peek during leaf drying or stem kill. Easy enough for me to say, as my curiosity only extends until I see yellow in the container - after that, I'm satisfied.....

 

[Bex]

Get on your lab coats.....the experiment begins. This morning I was 24 hours into wilting....and checked. My temp was at 118F, my RH was down at 52%. And my leaf was totally dry....just like the last time. And still pretty green - some bright green, and some yellowy/green. I had the same result on my last run. I wonder, first, is the leaf supposed to be this dry at the end of wilting? Certainly all the lamina has given up its moisture - it is not crispy, but really dry and makes a rustling noise if you touch it. But I cannot see that the leaf will change its color anymore if I go into drying as per the schedule. So - and considering that this is a rather small run, so if 80 leaves are lost, it's not a big hardship - I am trying to see if I can duplicate the effects of the last run. OK, OK, this may be a silly thing to do. I sat in yellowing for 84 hours this time with the leaf looking like it was starting to turn. Perhaps I should be sitting in yellowing for a longer period of time?? I may do that on my next run, if I continue to have difficulty getting the color curing right. In any event, after the 84 hours, I went into wilting - just like my last run. I didn't notice much of a color change during wilting...all that happened was that the lamina just became dry.
I believe that I will be able to duplicate the conditions of the last run, although possibly not the end result - which remains to be seen. I have the container vented - it is been pretty much vented the entire time from the start. A la the 'points on peeking' as above, when I looked this morning, the RH dropped from 52% to 46% while I (quickly, mind you) looked. However, within an hour it was back up to 52% again. I am supposing that this means that there is still plenty of moisture in the midrib. On my last run, I bumped the temp up to 122F at this very point, and sat there at 122F/52% for 4 hours. I then called it quits, shut the vent and hiked the temp up to 135F, and left the chamber like that for 12 hours. When I came back, the RH had risen to 84% and most of the leaf had changed to yellow or brown, with about 15% still straggling at a pale green. I am trying this again, to see if I can duplicate what happened the last time.
Yes, I understand that I am using leaf that is not really ready, and so color curing is problematic. For my next run, would it be more advisable to sit in yellowing for a longer period of time....96 hours or more and actually wait for the leaf to change (if it does at all??) I can see that I don't get much color change in wilting - and that even waiting just under that 120F, if my container hits that 55% RH or so, my leaf is dry. Again - and perhaps this is due to my hygrometer - I have never been able to get that container down past 30% - at 30% my midrib is cracking dry and the leaf is untouchable, so perhaps my 52% is not really 52%, but is less, if you know what I mean.
Anyway, depending on the result of this run, I may wait a week or two to start my next one, just to give the leaf a bit more time to mature. But it's unlikely that - at least for this season - I will be able to duplicate that 'mature' look that I see on the forum and in photos. It would be really pleasant (and somewhat of a miracle) if this run duplicates the result of the last one....if so, then perhaps I have found a 'schedule' that is somewhat in line with my own conditions.....?????

 

[deluxestogie]

Mostly yellow...then wilt.

Bob

 

[Bex]

I must say, I clicked on to this page with trepidation. Fortunately the response has been quite kind. In my next run I will stick in yellowing until the leaves are mostly yellow before I go into wilting. Thank you.....

 

[Bex]

OK, you are well within your rights to say 'I told you so'. My experiment has been a total failure...as those with better experience would have predicted. I have not taken any photos of the disaster (yet) as I am waiting for the (horrible green) leaf to come back up to case so I can remove it. My quick inspection indicates that most of the leaf is a pale olive green...it would be easier for me to start smoking cigars, I would have more success (maybe).
I have decided to wait about a week or so before I do my next run, just to give the leaf in the tunnel a bit more time. And then I will be a good girl and abide by better knowledge - wait in yellowing until mostly yellow (no matter how long this takes) and then go into wilting. My bad.....

 

[deluxestogie]

If you have any sunshine there, hanging the slightly greenish leaf in bright sunlight for a day or two may help.

Bob

 

[Bex]

If you have any sunshine there, hanging the slightly greenish leaf in bright sunlight for a day or two may help.

Bob

Sadly, this is Ireland. We have just had an unusual spell of 3 weeks of sunny weather - it broke today. I don't expect to see the sun now for some time, and sadly not for two days in a row. Would plant lights have the same effect??

 

[deluxestogie]

I don't know what part of the solar spectrum is helpful for this. So, I don't know what plant lights would do.

Bob

 

[Bex]

They'd probably do nothing - I imagine that the "total" of sunlight is greater than the sum of its parts....Anyway, here is the 'total' of my last run. While taking into account that the camera is actually making this a bit more attractive, the green leaf you see looks pretty much like light green cigar wrapper:


However, no run would be complete with one little brightleaf, posing here amongst its less attractive brothers and sisters:



I am going to give myself (and my plants) a few days' break. The weather is atrocious now - too nasty to get up to the tunnel and a bit too windy to open it up anyway. But on my next attempt, I plan to sit in yellowing for as long as it takes. I'm actually a bit surprised by the result of this run - it didn't turn out as disastrous as I anticipated, and possibly, if we did have sun, this could be somewhat saved. Is there any 'shelf life' on how long the leaf can sit and still benefit from a couple of sunny days?
I have put these 80 or so leaves into the bag with the rest, and will sort them out at some point. I haven't tried smoking any of my 'produce' from this year yet, but will give my critique on it when I do. Last year's stuff still tastes a bit 'sour'.....

 

[deluxestogie]

The green leaf will taste awful. The brown and the yellow leaf should be good, blendable tobacco.

Bob

 

[Bex]

After a short hiatus...I'm back in the saddle again. Another fairly small run - about 120 leaves. Sadly, they don't look much different than the ones I harvested last week. I think I'm going to have to give some serious consideration regarding germinating far earlier than I've been doing. I'm into this run about 60 hours, having started on Sunday evening. One thing I've noticed, which has been consistent with my runs this year, and may or may not be meaningful...for the first 48 hours, my relative humidity stays quite consistently at about 95%. After I hit that 48 hour mark, it's like the leaf is now starting to give up its moisture or something - the RH shoots up to 99%. I'm wondering if those first 48 hours are kind of like a handicap in golf, if you know what I mean - that it is taking me 48 hours to 'come up' to day one - so that I should start counting my time from that 48 hour mark, instead of being so impatient to move on, thinking that I'm already 2 days into the process. I have to shred some tobacco for the coming week - I think I might shred a few leaves of what I've grown this year - I haven't tried it yet......
Funnily enough, last year I lost about 5 pounds during my tobacco curing process - running up to the shed about every hour or so to check on RH and temp. I'm a lot more relaxed this year (and fatter). Sad......

 

[Bex]

I'm running 96 hours into my run (or, using my new calculation 48 hours since the leaf has shown some activity). The leaf is still a pale green but starting to turn. I find that I am able to stay at around 95% RH during the day, but during the cold nights the RH will drop with the vents open, so I've been shutting them at night. I am maintaining 95F and will take a better peek tomorrow morning to see if it's time to move into wilting. If not, I plan to sit in yellowing for another 24 hours. Patience is my virtue.....

 

[Knucklehead]

One thing I've noticed, which has been consistent with my runs this year, and may or may not be meaningful...for the first 48 hours, my relative humidity stays quite consistently at about 95%. After I hit that 48 hour mark, it's like the leaf is now starting to give up its moisture or something - the RH shoots up to 99%. I'm wondering if those first 48 hours are kind of like a handicap in golf, if you know what I mean - that it is taking me 48 hours to 'come up' to day one - so that I should start counting my time from that 48 hour mark, instead of being so impatient to move on, thinking that I'm already 2 days into the process.

Some old guy once said that time is relative to the observer. If a lady in Ireland opens her flue chamber at X number of hours and discovers green leaf, and a man in Virginia opens his chamber at X number of hours and discovers yellow leaf, we know that time has passed more quickly in Virginia than it has in Ireland. The Virginia observer would move to wilt at X number of hours, however, the Irish observer will eventually move to wilt at Y number of hours due to the slower observed passage of time in Ireland. Time is an illusion. Go by color.

 

[Bex]

Wow. Who would have thought that someone who calls himself 'Knucklehead' would come up with such an interesting take on physics and a cool philosophy. I'm smiling. And you're 100% right. This is, of course, why the Irish observer is still so youthful after X number of years, and the Virginia observer at X number of years is far more elderly.....I should have known. Thanks!!

 

[Bex]

So, it appears that physics, as well as time, operates on a different plane in Ireland. As my chamber is outside, and I've noticed that my RH can drop magically during the night, I close the vent in the freezer each night before I go to bed. Last night, the RH was at 95% - I closed the vent, and this morning the RH was pretty much the same. I opened the vent at about 10AM, and by 2PM when I checked, the RH had dropped to 67%. The leaf was warm and supple, so not crispy dry, but there was a load of condensation on the lid of the freezer. I quickly wiped it down, closed the lid and the vent and within a few hours the RH had climbed up to 84%. The leaf is just barely starting to turn, and there were a few leaves that were starting to go brown. Next year I am definitely going to germinate a lot earlier and deal with the plants using plant lights or similar. I'm hoping that this alleviates some of this difficulty - although my plants bloomed at least 2 months ago - I would have thought that they would have been ready for curing by now. I had given about 10 of the Virginia plants to my friend with the greenhouse. Strangely, while his plants are thriving and have flowered some time ago, they are only about 3 feet tall - mine are at least 6 feet high and some closer to 8 feet or more. This whole thing sure is a mystery to me....

 

[Knucklehead]

Does the friend with the greenhouse have clear plastic? If so, his plants are not having to search for sunlight. With your green cloth your plants will behave much as shade grown leaf that is grown under shade cloth. They get really tall searching for light. The clear plastic will help you immensely when the time comes to change it.

Since your chamber is outside, it may pay to add 2" foam insulation to the outside of the freezer (to keep interior space the same). My kiln is inside my climate controlled basement and not having to chase temps or humidity all over the place due to changing ambient conditions is a blessing. I set it and forget it. Sufficient insulation may help your outside situation become more predictable. Next years vent system will also give you more precise, repeatable control. You're getting there.