Drying after kilning

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buck

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I'm done my 2014 kilning and I'm about ready to take it out of the kiln and start my 2015 batch.
The kilned tobacco is moist and at =~ 122f keeps the mold from growing but now how do I dry it without it molding?
I'm kilning using bags so would I just dump the leaf out into the kiln and if so at what temperature and I'm assuming here that if it doesn't dry enough within a few days that mold may form.

How do you guys do it?


thanks
 

AmaxB

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I go buy the feel (I use tubs), if it feels to wet I'll leave it in the kiln with the lid cracked checking every few hours. If not that moist but to moist to shred I'll put it on wire racks in stacks of 4 to 6 leaves and give it time. When it feels OK to shred I bag it and seal the bag after pressing the air out or I place it in a tub that seals well. If it is anything other than flue cure I get it to all most dry before storing.
 

Brown Thumb

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Just let the crockpot run dry and that will pull your rh down.
 

deluxestogie

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The leaf is already in bags. The leaf is already heated. Just open the bags and take them out of the kiln. They will dry down with amazing speed when they are warm like that. If the leaf is really damp after cooling, then you'll need to remove it from the bag.

My biggest problem with emptying warm, tied hands from my kiln is that the leaf dries so fast that I can hardly get it bagged before it becomes too brittle.

Bob
 

buck

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Since this is cigar leaf I was thinking of flattening out the leaf in small bunches of 8 or 10 leaves and putting it back in the kiln on wire racks with crockpot empty . Then maybe set to something like 30c or 86f and next day re- restack the leaf. My main concern is mold if it doesn't dry fast enough. I guess there is no special trick just keep an eye on it and restack.
 

buck

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The leaf is already in bags. The leaf is already heated. Just open the bags and take them out of the kiln. They will dry down with amazing speed when they are warm like that. If the leaf is really damp after cooling, then you'll need to remove it from the bag.

My biggest problem with emptying warm, tied hands from my kiln is that the leaf dries so fast that I can hardly get it bagged before it becomes too brittle.

Bob


Okay then I'll just flatten it and leave them out and restack if needed.

Thanks
 

deluxestogie

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When I remove a tied hand of wrapper leaf from the kiln, I untie it, then quickly stack them flat, before placing them into their storage bag. Pressing the air out of the poly-nylon bag, before rolling the end shut and clamping with clothespins, is sufficient to keep the leaf flat. I find filler leaf easier to use if it is permitted to keep its natural crinkle, so I leave them in tied hands within their storage bag.

Mold happens over days. Leaf case changes over minutes to hours. When the leaf feels dry, but not cracking, it's ready to seal it up.

Bob
 

Smokin Harley

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I'm done my 2014 kilning and I'm about ready to take it out of the kiln and start my 2015 batch.
The kilned tobacco is moist and at =~ 122f keeps the mold from growing but now how do I dry it without it molding?
I'm kilning using bags so would I just dump the leaf out into the kiln and if so at what temperature and I'm assuming here that if it doesn't dry enough within a few days that mold may form.

How do you guys do it?


thanks
Hey there Buck. I'm about to do a huge kiln load and from your description of your last kiln method, I think I may be doing the exact same thing.
How does it turn out for you kilning in the bags ?
Do you keep the bags open or shut and if shut , how tight ?
How long did you let it go in the kiln, 4 weeks or more? Temp, rH ?
I got put on a 2nd shift for about a month so I'm wanting to load up the box and let it go and hopefully have some leaf ready to roll when I get done with this job.
Any details you have that you have done are appreciated.
Thanks
 

buck

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I kiln using Ziploc bags not the freezer ones but the storage ones which are thicker and larger (too large for me). Initially I wanted to follow Amaxb's method using tubs but couldn't find any that were air tight and then read how Deluxestogie uses bags so I decided to incorporate a bit of both methods. I had the leaf stored (de-stemmed) in in my house since last summer but didn't notice much change, probably not moist enough. I brought the leaf to high case in the bags, then flattened, stacked the leaf together, squeezed the air out, sealed the bags and put them in non air right tubs for easy transport in and out of the kiln. I use an empty crock pot for heat, didn't want to have to deal with another sensor, refilling the crockpot and worrying about over/under humidification. similar reasons for Amaxb using tubs. I set the temp controller to 123f, checked on the leaves every couple of days, misting the leaf when I felt they were dry. After 4 weeks I wasn't getting the results I was expecting, the leaf still smelled fruity, the leaf colour was spotty, some sections black (rot ??) , dark other sections didn't darken much. I then wondered if stacking the leaf prevent some of the inner leaf from getting moisture or the required air to do it's thing.. I decide to unstack the leaf and leave them loose within the bag as well as provide more moisture thinking this would distribute humidity and heat more evenly. I dumped and reloaded the bags every few days,misting when required. I have the moisture to the point where the leaf feels like a moist warm rag, similar to clothes that have been in the dryer for half a cycle (not wet but warm and moist).

Its been 7 weeks now and I will stop kilning to let the leaves rest a while as I load this years batch. I'm not exactly sure what the leaf is suppose to look like after kilning, but the colour is not very even across the leaf and have noticed the smell change from fruity to more earthy, musty, smelly feet, I think a good thing. This was a few days ago so I'll unload my kiln and take pictures of the leaf maybe someone can tell me if it looks ready and/or maybe I should just try some and see what it tastes like. I don't think I'll have any nice looking wrapper leaf or maybe my method is not conducive to an evenly coloured leaf. Hanging wrapper leaves tied in hands in a humidified kiln may be the way to go for good wrapper leaf.

For my second batch I'll leave the leaves loose, moist with a bit of air in the bags and see if the colour change is more evenly distributed and time in the kiln shortened.
 

Smokin Harley

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ok, so you're still in the experimental phase of this. The way I read it at first I thought this was something you had done and was proven. I'll be watching your post and see how it progresses. Please, if you can , post pics of what you're doing.
I bought the Vapor Proof bags from FmGrowIt . I was just saying not even a week ago I wondered how kilning color cured low case leaf in sealed bags would work ,as your thoughts - not having to worry about adding water to the crockpot and just close it up in the box and let it run on heat . My first kiln run of mudlugs/low volado ran for 4 weeks and still came out smelling and looking not all too much different from when it went in.
 

Planter

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In my experience, properly fermented/kilned leaf is less prone to mould. Unless you kilned very moist, just airing it out over a few hours (probably overnight) will be sufficient. You may actually have to watch that thinner leaves don't become brittle. If they dry unevenly, put them back into a bag for a few hours so moisture levels can equalize. If the leaves are too wet, I leave them spread on a tray in the oven at a low temperature like 30-40 degrees Celsius (86-104 degrees Fahrenheit).
I never had mould directly (e.g. within a few days) after kilning - if stored too moist it still took several weeks to develop.
 

buck

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ok, so you're still in the experimental phase of this. The way I read it at first I thought this was something you had done and was proven. I'll be watching your post and see how it progresses. Please, if you can , post pics of what you're doing.
I bought the Vapor Proof bags from FmGrowIt . I was just saying not even a week ago I wondered how kilning color cured low case leaf in sealed bags would work ,as your thoughts - not having to worry about adding water to the crockpot and just close it up in the box and let it run on heat . My first kiln run of mudlugs/low volado ran for 4 weeks and still came out smelling and looking not all too much different from when it went in.


Yes still a work in progress. I don't see why this wouldn't work since it is based on Amaxb and Bob's methods which they have had success with; I'm just replacing air tight tubs with sealed bags instead. I believe I just needed to tinker with humidity a bit to get the leaf in the correct case and other little details such as not stacking the leaf tightly together. The first few weeks I was worried about mold but when I didn't see results I re-read some posts and determined that my leaf was not in high case enough. I'll know more if increasing case proved fruitful once I inspect the leaf tonight and yes I'll take some pictures and post my findings.


Thanks for the feed back guys, I'm no longer concerned about mold after the kilning process is done you have provided enough info for me to continue on.
 

rustycase

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gosh. I might re-consider that...
anything organic, and a bit of moisture, could grow some sort of mold.
question is, how much and how fast.
rc
 

deluxestogie

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I have to point out that I have never kilned tobacco within a sealed bag. When I kilned with bags (to fit into my old, baby kiln), the bags were always open, and water was in the Crockpot.

Bob
 

buck

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I have to point out that I have never kilned tobacco within a sealed bag. When I kilned with bags (to fit into my old, baby kiln), the bags were always open, and water was in the Crockpot.

Bob

I know that, maybe I should have mentioned it as not to cause confusion.


thanks
 

DGBAMA

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I kilned in bags last year, kiln had some air leaks so would not maintain rh at the desired temp. Worked out very well. At the end of the kiln cycle, I opened all the bags for a few more days at about 100deg to remove moisture for storage.
 

buck

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I checked up on my leaf and found it to be drier than I like.

I took some pics as shown below, various leaf, Jalapa, Pa Red Ligero, PA Red Viso, Olor Seco.
I was expecting a more evenly distributed colour along the leaf.



IMG_20150922_222157.jpgIMG_20150922_221746.jpgIMG_20150922_221355.jpgIMG_20150922_221004.jpg




IMG_20150922_221355.jpg
 

Smokin Harley

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If filling the crock pot is a problem, you can rig up a siphon feed from outside that keeps the level in the crock pot full with out having to open the door. There's a picture of it here, beginning at post #12:
http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/1694-kiln?p=23893&viewfull=1#post23893

This is the first time I'm seeing this link ...Left Righty has quite the kiln...I like the siphon water hose idea.
I think my kiln can easily be modified to have the vents and siphon tube as well.
 
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