fermentation culture

[iansane]

First off, this is the recipe I am referencing from Jim Johnson's "growing and processing tobacco at home":

"The culture should be prepared in a non metal container using the following ingredients and amounts;
distilled water 1 gallon
citric acid 1 spoonfull
glucose 1 1/2 pounds
protein(essence of chicken or beef) 1 spoonfull
To this add a little highly fermented tobacco, (perique/Cavendish/Latakia/imported havanna or American chewing tobacco), raise temperature to 120F, keep at this temperature until fermentation is active. This may be diluted down with distilled water to the quantity required and then sprayed thought the tobacco before it is put into the kiln."

I have used this technique a few times over the years. I sprayed it on the dry leaves to bring them to good case for fermentation and kilned at 125F for 4 weeks.
It comes out good. I didn't like the idea of using anyone elses flavors so I used my own perique.

My Questions. Does using a catalyst like this to start fermentation really do anything for the leaf? Or better stated, does spraying a culture like this on leaf really change the leaf itself, or is it just using what it had on the outside of the leaf where it was sprayed? It does give a nice flavor, but I wondered if that's all it was. Also does anyone know why glucose is the specified sugar in the culture recipe?

I have since adopted the method of throwing a leaf of my perique in my jars with the freshly fermenting leaves I'm processing. It brings them to case and probably makes the ferment faster. I'll smoke it after about two weeks in the kiln. I use no sugars or flavorings.

?an

 

[deluxestogie]

Given the amount of work involved in planting, growing, managing, weeding, harvesting and hanging my tobacco, and the fact that tobacco ferments entirely on its own, I have never been inclined to spray "fermentation cultures" onto the leaf. Chicken or beef? Really? Also, Perique is fermented primarily by the anaerobic yeast called Pichia anomala, Cavendish is cooked tobacco, rather than fermented, and Latakia is fire-cured.

If your goal is to have your tobacco taste like something other than the tobacco you grow, I would suggest experimenting with flavorants after it has been kilned and rested.

Bob

 

[johnny108]

It would seem that the glucose is a major contributor to this mix….
Given the requirement for highly fermented tobacco, it could be contributing the living culture which then grows on the glucose, using proteins in the meat extract, as well as the leaf, causing protein degradation and the creation of flavor compounds.
Possibly very similar to “beerique”, which uses wine or beer yeast for its culture.

I would wonder if some of the protein degradation is helping with flavor compound formation in a way similar to what is done with miso paste….
Although if that is the goal, adding meat essence would possible add more protein, or, if protein in the extract have already been degraded to flavor compounds, then just those flavoring compounds are adding something to the tobacco.

Edit: if no fermentation is occurring, or is incomplete, then the glucose would just act as a standard “casing” for the tobacco.

 

[Juxtaposer-]

A lot of tobacco processing gets called fermentation so the idea of actually fermenting tobacco is there.

 

[ShiniKoroshi]

The biggest effect caused by these various concoctions is psychological. Im sure others have noticed the rampant intentional disinformation, hype and mysticism in the tobacco culture. This too has an effect on your experience while smoking. Im convinced that good practices from seed to smoke is the only way to get the perfect smoking experience. The simple proof is in the Whole Leaf Blends from WLT.

 

[iansane]

Thanks for the info guys. I kinda figured it seemed like a useless and strange idea when I thought logically about it. I just did things without really thinking about when I was a novice. Makes me wonder what this guys cure was like if he felt the need to do this. and Duhhh on the pichia anomole. I don't always think with logic. It does make it taste good though.
I will clarify that goal at least for me, was to make smokeable cigarette tobacco as quickly as possible. I now use a kiln like the "invertebrate" kiln after carefully yellowing and curing my leaves. They don't really need a kickstart anyway, they already have all the good stuff to ferment. This has just been a question I've had for years as I have seen no one else do it. I agree there is a lotta mystery and disinformation out there which can leave one in the dark without trial and error. and error hurts when you only have 5 plants.
You folks are the light in the dark.

?an

 

[deluxestogie]

Jim Johnson's book was published in 2002, before there was a home-tobacco-growing community. It preceded the How to Grow Tobacco forum, as well as this (FTT) forum. Over the subsequent years, we, as a community, have sorted out a lot of the facts from the traditions and myths. We're all still figuring it out.

Bob

 

[ShiniKoroshi]

Jim Johnson's book was published in 2002, before there was a home-tobacco-growing community. It preceded the How to Grow Tobacco forum, as well as this (FTT) forum. Over the subsequent years, we, as a community, have sorted out a lot of the facts from the traditions and myths. We're all still figuring it out.

Bob

Absolutely Bob, the FTT members and you have done amazing work. Its absolutely overwhelming just finding this site now and trying to catch up.

 

[WillQuantrill]

Jim Johnson's book was published in 2002, before there was a home-tobacco-growing community. It preceded the How to Grow Tobacco forum, as well as this (FTT) forum. Over the subsequent years, we, as a community, have sorted out a lot of the facts from the traditions and myths. We're all still figuring it out.

Bob

If this strange method has developed out in 20+ years imagine what kind of strange methods have been tried in very rural Latin America and US Appalachia 100+ years ago. If the industry settled on common ground with the fire-cure method or St James Perique which are both pretty specific and involved processes, imagine all of the duds that didn't make the cut. HAHA

 

[deluxestogie]

Around the turn of the 20th century, there were a number of books about tobacco that parroted misinformation taken from ill-documented publications of 50 or 100 years earlier. Rumors and incorrect conjectures. Most tobacco growers over the past few hundred years simply grew the tobacco, color-cured or flue-cured it, then sold it to various markets. Most of the unique finishing methods that we recognize today were derived from the accidental impacts of transport (e.g. across the ocean in sealed hogsheads or barrels) or storage, the needs of sailors to carry their personal tobacco supplies, or the necessity of preventing mold (e.g. fire-curing).

Bob

 

[WillQuantrill]

I was laughing to myself how many varmints had been experimented on eating coffee beans before someone settled on the Civet, and how that could translate into highly sought after snus. HAHA