Growing cigar leaf in central Italy: @UmbriaFarmer

UmbriaFarmer

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My email is ********* Send me an email please

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Thanks Bob, but honestly it's just a kind of burner email I use for sketchy situations. I'm pretty crap at navigating this forum - it's a bit of a stretch for my brain- and I hadn't realised there was a proper channel to go through. Thank you.
 

UmbriaFarmer

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Bob, do you know what effect if any does fermentation have on a leafs combustability? Does if change, get better/worse with fermentation?
 

UmbriaFarmer

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Update on my activities...
So all my leaf has done it's time in the fermenter and I've removed all the hands except the last 3 or 4 hands of the 4th, ligero priming. I've graded it, froglegged the filler and today packed my mini bales of 3rd priming binder and wrapper. The smell is now changing from fruitcake to a much more cigary aroma. The bales now join the first one for 6 months of aging. And for those interested, I harvested roughly 75kg wet weight of leaf and have ended up with roughly 7.5kg finished leaf, so 10%, which is what I always used to get doing my pipe tobacco too.
 

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UmbriaFarmer

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Bob, do you know what effect if any does fermentation have on a leafs combustability? Does if change, get better/worse with fermentation?
Hey Bob, just thought you might be interested to hear the results of an experiment I've just conducted, re combustability between unfermented and fermented leaf. I took some regular sun-cured kentucky, grown in Italy, and fermented a hand of it. Then I rolled ten toros (6x50), all with identical filler (my own fully fermented criollo seco and viso) but 5 had a binder and wrapper of unfermented kentucky while 5 used the same leaf but fully 8 week fermented, rested for 2 weeks. Essentially the unfermented ones simply will not burn - give little smoke and go out immediately whilst the fermented one smoke really well. Obviously such young leaf leaves a lot to be desired flavour etc-wise but the burn difference is night and day. Case proven I think.
 

UmbriaFarmer

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Im too old and stupid how to figure out how to start a new thread on the following subject so I'm going to post my question here, confident that enough knowledgeable people will read it.
I am planning on growing the following cigar varieties next year and would like to know what the generally-held views are on each one, ie what can I expect re strength, aroma, taste etc.
1) H2k (my favourite wrapper but is it used also as filler?)
2) Vuelta Abajo
3) Piloto Cubano
4) Corojo 98
5) Nostrano del Brenta (but I expect only Mauro will have experience of this Italian variety).
So if you have experience of growing any of these and have then used them to make cigars, can you give me the benefit of you experience please? How did it turn out, did you use it for just filler or binder or wrapper and how strong was it? Tia...
 

deluxestogie

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I have never grown Habano 2000. My grow logs for various years are filled with the others. They have all been excellent. Corojo 99 has the highest yield. Nostrano del Brenta produces leaves that are dark and rich, though the nicotine is moderate. The Piloto Cubano is the most potent of those.

some examples of oscuro that just happened

Bob
 

UmbriaFarmer

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I have never grown Habano 2000. My grow logs for various years are filled with the others. They have all been excellent. Corojo 99 has the highest yield. Nostrano del Brenta produces leaves that are dark and rich, though the nicotine is moderate. The Piloto Cubano is the most potent of those.

some examples of oscuro that just happened

Bob
Bob, do you know much about Vuelto Abajo?
 

UmbriaFarmer

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I was, the last time I checked.

Bob
Well I'll be buggered! All this time, here's me been chatting with you never knowing you were the author of my favourite book! I'm lost for words, except thank you for writing such a great book - its helped me no end. Now I'm imagining everybody else here knows who you are except me. Doh! Anyway, it's been a pleasure chatting with you and long may it continue.
 

UmbriaFarmer

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Ok Bob, next question: I rolled maybe a dozen or so test cigars (50x6 toros) with my criollo straight from the kiln, because I was itching to see what it was like albeit immature, before putting the bulk of it away to age. Some were seco+viso, some viso+ligero and some 100% ligero filler with viso binder. Although they burn very well, good smoke volume and stay lit, the flavour and strength are, I'm loathed to admit, very low octane. The flavour is deffo central American/Caribbean but also very delicate and they are all very light smokes, no retrohale punch, no inhale throat hit, just generally a pretty unsatisfying smoke, including the 100% ligero. I am praying these are qualities that might develop during aging but I am skeptical about that. How is it possible that a 100% ligero cigar could be so damn mild in every aspect? Right now I'm mentally preparing myself for this leaf to be left aging and use as a combustion enhancer for the (much more varied) 2027 crop which hopefully will produce more interesting results...
 

UmbriaFarmer

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It's difficult to know, from the scant photos and the vague fertilizing routine, but my first guess with very mild leaf is that it was harvested early. Next guess: fertilizer regimen.

Bob
I matured the patch after ploughing with lots of 3 Yr old horse manure, then, when prepping each planting spot I put a cupful of blood and bone meal deep in the hole, then once in June and once in July I added a specific-to-tobacco liquid fertiliser into the drip irrigation water. The plants appeared vigorous and healthy, grew to between 5 and 6 ft tall, got tons of sunshine and I harvested when the tips were yellowing. But if either of your two points are a possibility, I shall make certain this coming season not to repeat them because unless something miraculous occurs during aging, the crop is unsatisfactory. I can see strong, rough tobacco being smoothed out with fermentation and aging but it's harder for me to envisage mild leaf developing strength through aging..... Thanks for the suggestions.
 

deluxestogie

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Nicotine production occurs entirely within the tobacco roots, and is transported to the leaves (for protection from herbivores). Various plant stressors tend to increase nicotine production. Since I simply apply 10-10-10 fertilizer (at the appropriate rate for tomatoes) only once, in the week or two prior to transplanting to the field, and never add more fertilizer during the growing season [the exception being the rare event of drenching rains within the first two weeks after transplanting, in which case I re-apply the fertilizer at ½ rate], I don't have a clear sense of what impact repeated fertilizer has on nicotine production during the growing season. Also, I have no experience with the various supplements that you have applied.

In the commercial tobacco regions in the US, the fertilizer schedule is similar to what I usually do. For cost reasons at the commercial scale, the N-P-K ratios are optimized for tobacco, specifically to minimize cost. At the home scale, the cost differences between 10-10-10 and tobacco-specific N-P-K ratios are insignificant.

My suggestion for your next growing season is to fertilize once, prior to transplant, for most of the crop. Then, as a control comparison, plant a smaller portion using the same fertilizer routine that you used for 2026. Compare the results. You get to be the laboratory.

Bob
 

Wombat_smokes

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As with wine, you have stellar years and rubbish years despite what seems to be "average" weather patterns. I'm a fan of the maturity theory. Yes, yellowing tips is the beginning of maturity and can be primed; however, letting the color change spread more can allow more depth of flavor.

I'd venture to recommend either identifying your favorite wrapper positions for "early" harvest, leave a portion of the crop to reach late maturity/early ripe, or throw caution to the wind and let everything get ripe. I suppose you could even have "wrapper" seasons and filler seasons.

As this is my first season, I'm in the seed grow, blending diversity, and learning best harvest times. Some varieties tell you when they're ready; others, you choose.
 
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