NRustica
Well-Known Member
What do you mean they are a mixture and that you need to subline them first? Inquiring minds want to know.
Indonesian Tobacco - a discussion
- Thread starter deluxestogie
- Start date
TheOtherOne
Well-Known Member
That's a pretty cool looking rustica plant. It's leaves look like about the same size as my hopi got to, but a lot shorter. I wonder if it was planted directly into the ground from seed.
JessicaNicot
Well-Known Member
well the guy who got the seed said he was told that they no longer separate out the different types on the island. im guessing everyone shares the same batches of seeds for the tobacco that's grown there. that's all I know really.
sublining is where you grow out a mixture of seed and try to separate out the different types. you self seed from the different types and keep them separate- Madura A, Madura B, etc (Hicks, Hicks Broadleaf; TI 722 white flower, TI 722 red flower).
sublining is where you grow out a mixture of seed and try to separate out the different types. you self seed from the different types and keep them separate- Madura A, Madura B, etc (Hicks, Hicks Broadleaf; TI 722 white flower, TI 722 red flower).
NRustica
Well-Known Member
I see. I was thinking it was something like that. Just didn't want to assume it.
In a different thread, Knucklehead provided this link to an excellent October, 1998 article on various Indonesian tobaccos.
http://www.smokeshopmag.com/1098/region.htm
Though dated, in terms of market status and production, the discussion of varieties is worth the read.
Bob
http://www.smokeshopmag.com/1098/region.htm
Though dated, in terms of market status and production, the discussion of varieties is worth the read.
Bob
CT Tobaccoman
Well-Known Member
When shade tobacco was first tried in Connecticut around 1900, they used the Sumatra seed, the TBN, I assume. It didn't work out well, the leaves were burned by the sun, even under the tent. By 1910, all Connecticut Shade was and still is a varietal from Cuba. In the 1950s, a company called American Sumatra was the world's largest shade tobacco growers, with farms in Conn., Mass., and Florida. Consolidated Cigar eventually monopolized the production of shade in the Conn. Valley by the 1970s, until they failed in 1982. Consolidated Cigar is back now, under the name Altadis. Probably 80% of USA-Conn shade is now grown or contracted by Altadis and General Cigar.
CT Tobaccoman
Well-Known Member
None of this provides an answer to the key question.
Bob[/QUOTE]
I personally heard about (and "Shrouded in Cheesecloth confirms) that at first wooden slats were used to shade plants. Somebody tried to patent the design of his "slat" setup, buy was unsuccessful. I have seen a very old photo somewhere of a field shaded by wood slats from the late 1800s.
Bob[/QUOTE]
I personally heard about (and "Shrouded in Cheesecloth confirms) that at first wooden slats were used to shade plants. Somebody tried to patent the design of his "slat" setup, buy was unsuccessful. I have seen a very old photo somewhere of a field shaded by wood slats from the late 1800s.
I'd love to see a thread started that had photos of old curing barns, farm equipment, cigar tools like MarcL keeps finding on ebay, tobacco fields, etc. All in one place. I find all that old stuff interesting.
forumdotabaco
Well-Known Member
join tobacco tobacco shredders to the list
Home-Grown Besuki Wrapper
This is a summary of my experience with home-grown Besuki (Bezuki) wrapper. The plant itself grows much like a white-stem burley, with very light green, mottled leaves of generous size, white stalk and white stems. Its growth, like white-stem burley, is sluggish at first, then rapidly grows to a medium-size plant.
It seemed to attract aphids much more than other varieties, and required quite a bit of spraying with soap solution to keep them under relative control. By the end of the season, many of the leaves showed signs of aphid honey dew near the leaf bases. The leaves, again like white-stem burley, rapidly cured to a light golden color.
As you can see, the average leaf size is impressive, and comparable to the size of imported Besuki wrapper leaf. It is a bit thicker, when sun-grown, but not by much.
It kilns mostly to a medium brown--some lighter, some darker.
My initial trials were promising, although the leaf seemed not quite as stretchy as imported Besuki.
The kilned leaf has now aged (in low case) for an additional 6 months. It has mellowed to a mild, somewhat bland flavor (like imported Besuki), and has shown a stretch that is comparable to the imported leaf.
Although my home-grown leaf has some bug holes, the leaf size allows perfect wrappers to be trimmed from just about every leaf half. I would say that, with the exception of the bother over aphids, Besuki is an excellent choice for home production of thin, large, stretchy wrapper leaf--even when grown in full sun.
Bob
This is a summary of my experience with home-grown Besuki (Bezuki) wrapper. The plant itself grows much like a white-stem burley, with very light green, mottled leaves of generous size, white stalk and white stems. Its growth, like white-stem burley, is sluggish at first, then rapidly grows to a medium-size plant.
It seemed to attract aphids much more than other varieties, and required quite a bit of spraying with soap solution to keep them under relative control. By the end of the season, many of the leaves showed signs of aphid honey dew near the leaf bases. The leaves, again like white-stem burley, rapidly cured to a light golden color.
As you can see, the average leaf size is impressive, and comparable to the size of imported Besuki wrapper leaf. It is a bit thicker, when sun-grown, but not by much.
It kilns mostly to a medium brown--some lighter, some darker.
My initial trials were promising, although the leaf seemed not quite as stretchy as imported Besuki.
The kilned leaf has now aged (in low case) for an additional 6 months. It has mellowed to a mild, somewhat bland flavor (like imported Besuki), and has shown a stretch that is comparable to the imported leaf.
Although my home-grown leaf has some bug holes, the leaf size allows perfect wrappers to be trimmed from just about every leaf half. I would say that, with the exception of the bother over aphids, Besuki is an excellent choice for home production of thin, large, stretchy wrapper leaf--even when grown in full sun.
Bob
Ben Brand
Well-Known Member
Nice looking leaves Bob, thanks for the info. Besuki is on my planned list for next season
Isabel
Member
I am new to the forum but I came across this Indonesian tobacco thread and wanted to reply at least to the definition of VO. VO means indeed “Voor Oogst”. In Indonesia they usually have two times of tobacco planting and harvesting. One is started in the rainy season and the other one in the dry season thereafter. The first planting is called “Voor Oogst” whereas the second planting is called “Na Oogst”. Could be translated as before harvest and after harvest.
Welcome to the forum. And thank you for your contribution. Feel free to post a thread in the "Introduce Yourself" forum.
Bob
Bob
Re: Pics of your sticks!!
This is wrapped in the VBN/FIK 2007 wrapper from Perantara (via WLT). It's been an ordeal, trying to decipher the "FIK" part of this classification. There is no question that FIK is listed separately from VBN shade-grown Indonesian leaf by the broker, Perantara. But this sample (see below) clearly indicates "VBN/FIK".
"FIK" is, I assume, derived from a phrase in Dutch, but I haven't been able to make too much sense of it. The best I've come up with is that it indicates leaf that has somehow been subjected to either heat or smoke. But this wrapper does not have the smokey aroma of, say, San Andrés wrapper from Mexico, which is subjected to light smoke exposure from drying fires in the barns.
Perhaps Tutu can clarify what the "FIK" term means here.
I can say that, unlike Sumatra wrapper, this leaf has no tooth (tiny bumps on the surface of the leaf and the ash). It may be derived from CT Shade. The flavor does not resemble CT Shade, but is very neutral, with a faint nutty undertone.
The bound bunch needs to be well finished, since this wrapper has very little tensile strength, and can do no compression of its own. It also doesn't stretch very well. But when laid upon a smooth bunch, it comes out rather nice in appearance.
Bob
This is wrapped in the VBN/FIK 2007 wrapper from Perantara (via WLT). It's been an ordeal, trying to decipher the "FIK" part of this classification. There is no question that FIK is listed separately from VBN shade-grown Indonesian leaf by the broker, Perantara. But this sample (see below) clearly indicates "VBN/FIK".
"FIK" is, I assume, derived from a phrase in Dutch, but I haven't been able to make too much sense of it. The best I've come up with is that it indicates leaf that has somehow been subjected to either heat or smoke. But this wrapper does not have the smokey aroma of, say, San Andrés wrapper from Mexico, which is subjected to light smoke exposure from drying fires in the barns.
Perhaps Tutu can clarify what the "FIK" term means here.
I can say that, unlike Sumatra wrapper, this leaf has no tooth (tiny bumps on the surface of the leaf and the ash). It may be derived from CT Shade. The flavor does not resemble CT Shade, but is very neutral, with a faint nutty undertone.
The bound bunch needs to be well finished, since this wrapper has very little tensile strength, and can do no compression of its own. It also doesn't stretch very well. But when laid upon a smooth bunch, it comes out rather nice in appearance.
Bob
Tutu
Well-Known Member
Re: Pics of your sticks!!
Bob, I had never heard the term FIK before. I've done some digging. Let me try to explain things.
PTPN has various growing locations, methods, various tobacco types, and various grades. For instance VBN and TBN. They are similar in method, both are grown under shade, which is what the "BN" part stands for, as "bawah naungan" is Indonesian for "under net". The difference between the two is the seed variety and the growing location. Where "T" simply stands for "tembakau", "V" is Vorstenlanden. The latter is a seed variety from an area in Central Java, and I suppose that's where they grow their VBN. The more regular TBN is grown in Jember, East Java. TBN is supposed to be a cross between Besuki and Connecticut, but I've always had doubts whether the seed variety really is a cross. I suspect it's just normal Besuki, grown in Connecticut conditions (hence the shade). If you scroll down on this website you will find a little table telling you where they grow which tobacco. Kertosari and Ajong are districts in Jember, whereas Klaten is in Central Java, the old Vorstenlanden region. BESNO stands for Besuki Nota, Nota being the season, and VNO stands for Vorstenlanden Nota. These are the tobaccos grown in direct sunlight.
Now I have failed to find out what the abbreviation "FIK" stands for, but I do know what tobacco it is. FIK is Connecticut seed, and FIN is Sumatra seed. Both are grown under shade or in greenhouses. It's grown in Central Java, as you can see in the graph on their webpage. I think if anything, these abbreviations are probably Indonesia, not Dutch. If I run into someone from PTPN I will ask, but I rarely do.
So Bob, your leaf that's called VBN/FIK is grown in Klaten, that's for sure. Looking at the picture, my guess is that it is VBN. Too bad I can't smell the leaf from here. The interesting part is that it was PTPN themselves who labbeled it VBN/FIK. What I can tell you is the grade. The 202 is an area code. III TENG means that it is the third middle plant position. "Tengahan" means "middle". Not counting the sandlugs, that would mean it's leaf number 11 and 12 on a plant. The "K" is for "kesap", meaning "dry", which simply is the opposite of an "M", which is "minyak, or "oily". It means there's not too much dark water marks along the midrib. The "B" is the colour mark, which is "biru". The funny thing here is that although in Indonesian "biru" means "blue", it means "green" in Madurese. In tobacco, it's used for the green colour code in grading. I know your set of leafs don't look green, but these leafs were greenish relative to other leafs that were more red, pink or yellow. Then there's lot's of other colour tones, but in selling colour they will just use "B". At last, "2s" is a size mark. These are medium sized leafs. PTPN uses slightly different length marks so I'm not completely sure what the range is in cm.
To go with the story I'll insert a picture of some PTPN leafs I've got myself. Maybe that way you can compare the grade mark. The
View attachment 22115
View attachment 22116
Bob, I had never heard the term FIK before. I've done some digging. Let me try to explain things.
PTPN has various growing locations, methods, various tobacco types, and various grades. For instance VBN and TBN. They are similar in method, both are grown under shade, which is what the "BN" part stands for, as "bawah naungan" is Indonesian for "under net". The difference between the two is the seed variety and the growing location. Where "T" simply stands for "tembakau", "V" is Vorstenlanden. The latter is a seed variety from an area in Central Java, and I suppose that's where they grow their VBN. The more regular TBN is grown in Jember, East Java. TBN is supposed to be a cross between Besuki and Connecticut, but I've always had doubts whether the seed variety really is a cross. I suspect it's just normal Besuki, grown in Connecticut conditions (hence the shade). If you scroll down on this website you will find a little table telling you where they grow which tobacco. Kertosari and Ajong are districts in Jember, whereas Klaten is in Central Java, the old Vorstenlanden region. BESNO stands for Besuki Nota, Nota being the season, and VNO stands for Vorstenlanden Nota. These are the tobaccos grown in direct sunlight.
Now I have failed to find out what the abbreviation "FIK" stands for, but I do know what tobacco it is. FIK is Connecticut seed, and FIN is Sumatra seed. Both are grown under shade or in greenhouses. It's grown in Central Java, as you can see in the graph on their webpage. I think if anything, these abbreviations are probably Indonesia, not Dutch. If I run into someone from PTPN I will ask, but I rarely do.
So Bob, your leaf that's called VBN/FIK is grown in Klaten, that's for sure. Looking at the picture, my guess is that it is VBN. Too bad I can't smell the leaf from here. The interesting part is that it was PTPN themselves who labbeled it VBN/FIK. What I can tell you is the grade. The 202 is an area code. III TENG means that it is the third middle plant position. "Tengahan" means "middle". Not counting the sandlugs, that would mean it's leaf number 11 and 12 on a plant. The "K" is for "kesap", meaning "dry", which simply is the opposite of an "M", which is "minyak, or "oily". It means there's not too much dark water marks along the midrib. The "B" is the colour mark, which is "biru". The funny thing here is that although in Indonesian "biru" means "blue", it means "green" in Madurese. In tobacco, it's used for the green colour code in grading. I know your set of leafs don't look green, but these leafs were greenish relative to other leafs that were more red, pink or yellow. Then there's lot's of other colour tones, but in selling colour they will just use "B". At last, "2s" is a size mark. These are medium sized leafs. PTPN uses slightly different length marks so I'm not completely sure what the range is in cm.
To go with the story I'll insert a picture of some PTPN leafs I've got myself. Maybe that way you can compare the grade mark. The
View attachment 22115
View attachment 22116
Attachments
Re: Pics of your sticks!!
That's an impressive homework assignment you've submitted. Thank you. I'll need to think about how to integrate this post into the thread on Indonesia Tobacco. It contains a huge amount of information.
The FIK leaf that I have does not smell like CT Shade, but it is 10 years old. CT Shade would make sense, though. If you look carefully at my cigar photo, the wrapper shows a spot of chlorophyll near the ash line, on the top surface.
A few years ago, Don sent me small, tasting samples of over a dozen Indonesian leaf versions that he was considering stocking, all with those little Perantara tags. I was only able to figure out a portion of their meaning. There is so much info on them.
Bob
That's an impressive homework assignment you've submitted. Thank you. I'll need to think about how to integrate this post into the thread on Indonesia Tobacco. It contains a huge amount of information.
The FIK leaf that I have does not smell like CT Shade, but it is 10 years old. CT Shade would make sense, though. If you look carefully at my cigar photo, the wrapper shows a spot of chlorophyll near the ash line, on the top surface.
A few years ago, Don sent me small, tasting samples of over a dozen Indonesian leaf versions that he was considering stocking, all with those little Perantara tags. I was only able to figure out a portion of their meaning. There is so much info on them.
Bob
Tutu
Well-Known Member
Re: Pics of your sticks!!
Do you still have those tags? I think I'll be able to explain the majority of inscriptions because I work with the same grades on a daily basis. Would be very interested to see any other besides the one you posted.
Yes I did spot the chlorophyll on your wrapper. You'll get those in lower binder/wrapper grades in Besuki and Vorstenlanden too. I'll post a picture of some lower binder grades of Besuki if you want.
Do you still have those tags? I think I'll be able to explain the majority of inscriptions because I work with the same grades on a daily basis. Would be very interested to see any other besides the one you posted.
Yes I did spot the chlorophyll on your wrapper. You'll get those in lower binder/wrapper grades in Besuki and Vorstenlanden too. I'll post a picture of some lower binder grades of Besuki if you want.
Tutu
Well-Known Member
Re: Pics of your sticks!!
As we're discussing this in the "pics of your sticks", might as well turn them into cigars.
They're all Besuki and Corojo filler, Corojo binder, Besuki wrapper.
Isabel made some too and decided to use a leaf of Besuki sun-cured bottom leafs.
View attachment 22119
View attachment 22118
As we're discussing this in the "pics of your sticks", might as well turn them into cigars.
They're all Besuki and Corojo filler, Corojo binder, Besuki wrapper.
Isabel made some too and decided to use a leaf of Besuki sun-cured bottom leafs.
View attachment 22119
View attachment 22118
Attachments
I likely have more of these Perantara tags buried somewhere. Here are 8 that I excavated today.
I'll wait for comments on these, many of which are similar to one another. Then I will construct an infographic.
[I've also copied the previous 5 posts from the Pics of your Sticks thread.]
Bob
I'll wait for comments on these, many of which are similar to one another. Then I will construct an infographic.
[I've also copied the previous 5 posts from the Pics of your Sticks thread.]
Bob
yan
Member
"Toothy Packaging"
Sometimes, when describing high-quality cigars, the term "toothy wrapping paper" is encountered, which is often used for wrapping paper in Cameroon countries in Africa. Other varieties are sometimes "toothed."
I don't know what caused this phenomenon. It seems to be related to variety, rather than geography or processing methods.
This is the cigar I rolled up today, wrapped in a very delicious Indonesian VBN shade wrapper. The burn of the wrapping paper is very good. Most wrapping paper is not toothy. The toothy leaves look like good chicken skin umps.
In the image, you can see the subtle bumps of the leaves,
And the white "teeth" remained on the ashes.
Bob
The love of La Atoma de Cuba in Honduras on the United States is what you said "chicken skin" cigar clothes.
