I believe you, but the funny thing for me is that I was promised the one who had that forum that I "only" should finish the last business and after that never return again.
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Tutu
Well-Known Member
Yes, Indonesians treat it the same way. Some of it, not all.
The pictures in the first article (kasut vincci) do not look like Kasturi. At least, not the Jawa Timur Kasturi. But I can't seem to find a name of the plant in the text. It talks about the cutting and the curing.
The second article (tembakau darat) has pictures of tobacco that looks a lot more like the Kasturi we have here. But neither this article mentions the variety name. It talks about memories changes in smoking behavior.
I found one different article, this one, that does mention that Kasturi is grown outside of Lombok, Bali and Java, on Singapore and Malaysia.
Would be interested to find this plant somewhere else and to compare it to the Kasturi in Jember.
As well as seeing the seed of Jember Kasturi grown somewhere else.
Lefty is probably the first who'll give it a shot!
The pictures in the first article (kasut vincci) do not look like Kasturi. At least, not the Jawa Timur Kasturi. But I can't seem to find a name of the plant in the text. It talks about the cutting and the curing.
The second article (tembakau darat) has pictures of tobacco that looks a lot more like the Kasturi we have here. But neither this article mentions the variety name. It talks about memories changes in smoking behavior.
I found one different article, this one, that does mention that Kasturi is grown outside of Lombok, Bali and Java, on Singapore and Malaysia.
Would be interested to find this plant somewhere else and to compare it to the Kasturi in Jember.
As well as seeing the seed of Jember Kasturi grown somewhere else.
Lefty is probably the first who'll give it a shot!
Tutu
Well-Known Member
Measured the leaf, 55 cm, 21,5 inches.
Considering it was grown in a pot during the rainy season with no topping.
Not a bad catch, the Kasturi.
Considering it was grown in a pot during the rainy season with no topping.
Not a bad catch, the Kasturi.
That is impressive for a pot grown plant.
Bob
Bob
Strelok
Member
Hefty leaves have turned. And the material of the sheet is good. Taste will probably be nice. And commercially available /
Tutu
Well-Known Member
I have just bagged the Kasturi top so it can produce seed. I was quite happy with this first Kasturi plant and it would be nice to collect as many seeds as possible. Another plan is to cross the Kasturi with Amersfoort. It will be a first attempt at crossing, but I've got to start somewhere.
The sun cured leaf I open, press, and store. I plan to go back to the Netherlands somewhere in the middle of 2017 for a few weeks. I hope to have small batches of cured leaf of different varieties. I gave a friend one of those hand shredders for his birthday. The idea is to shred the different varieties of leaf and then for each person to make his own blend. My friend grows quite a bit of weed so you may guess what the blend is for, after all. So far I have Kasturi and Amersfoort leafs cured. My next round will be Timor-Leste plants, together with Besuki. Got a few other seedlings awaiting their turn!
The sun cured leaf I open, press, and store. I plan to go back to the Netherlands somewhere in the middle of 2017 for a few weeks. I hope to have small batches of cured leaf of different varieties. I gave a friend one of those hand shredders for his birthday. The idea is to shred the different varieties of leaf and then for each person to make his own blend. My friend grows quite a bit of weed so you may guess what the blend is for, after all. So far I have Kasturi and Amersfoort leafs cured. My next round will be Timor-Leste plants, together with Besuki. Got a few other seedlings awaiting their turn!
On inspecting the Kasturi seed that I received today from Tutu, I got the impression that the seeds were larger than is typical for N. tabacum.
Seed of N. tabacum will pass through a 600 micron sieve, but not a 400 micron sieve. In the photo above (which is marked in centimeters--small marks are 1 mm), the seed does seem a bit large. 600 microns is 0.6 mm.
I got out my 600 micron sieve, which will trap nearly all N. rustica seed, and sprinkled in some of the Kasturi seed. Every one passed right on through with no effort on my part.
So it must just be my old eyes tricking me.
Kasturi seed will go to the FTT seed bank.
Bob
Seed of N. tabacum will pass through a 600 micron sieve, but not a 400 micron sieve. In the photo above (which is marked in centimeters--small marks are 1 mm), the seed does seem a bit large. 600 microns is 0.6 mm.
I got out my 600 micron sieve, which will trap nearly all N. rustica seed, and sprinkled in some of the Kasturi seed. Every one passed right on through with no effort on my part.
So it must just be my old eyes tricking me.
Kasturi seed will go to the FTT seed bank.
Bob
Isabel
Member
Hi Bob,
It was the first thing I noticed that the Kasturi seeds seem bigger than other N. tabacum seeds. They really are slightly bigger.
It was the first thing I noticed that the Kasturi seeds seem bigger than other N. tabacum seeds. They really are slightly bigger.
On inspecting the Kasturi seed that I received today from Tutu, I got the impression that the seeds were larger than is typical for N. tabacum.
Seed of N. tabacum will pass through a 600 micron sieve, but not a 400 micron sieve. In the photo above (which is marked in centimeters--small marks are 1 mm), the seed does seem a bit large. 600 microns is 0.6 mm.
I got out my 600 micron sieve, which will trap nearly all N. rustica seed, and sprinkled in some of the Kasturi seed. Every one passed right on through with no effort on my part.
So it must just be my old eyes tricking me.
Kasturi seed will go to the FTT seed bank.
Bob
Interesting news, Bob does you have any Alida seed, they are also bigger then normally Tabacum seed
I don't have Alida seed. I do have some seed from rusticas. If I weren't so lazy, I would have gotten them out for comparison. They are relatively huge.
Bob
Tutu
Well-Known Member
I have dug up a few things about Kasturi. LeftyNick pointed out that there is Kasturi in Malaysia too, and it looks different. I have quite some asking around, as well as looking up on the internet. There are several sorts of Kasturi. Kasturi is thus a collective name for a group of varieties that are not too far apart. A few confirmed Kasturi varieties are:
Kasturi Jepun
Kasturi Mawar
Kasturi Jimamut
Kasturi Merakot
Kasturi Somporis
Kasturi Baleno
A farmer whom I know well has said that the Kasturi Jepun and Kasturi Mawar can be told apart by looking at the leaf shape. He said that the leafs of Kasturi Mawar are longer and those of Kasturi Jepun are wider. He said he gave me Kasturi Jepun. Thus the earlier pictures in this thread of the plant in my back yard are Kasturi Jepun. The seeds I have sent to a few members on this forum are not from that plant, but from a field in the area where that farmer lives. I am glad I took photos, so I will show them to him later. He will confirm whether that is Kasturi Jepun as well. I suspect that it is. If it is Mawar, I've got myself a second variety.
During a trip today to Bondowoso I stopped at a field where the tobacco plants had already been harvested. There were still seedpods remaining so I asked the farmer what tobacco he was growing. Being in the Bondowoso area, I was hoping to find some Jatim varieties. This was prior to finding out about the different Kasturi types. He told me that the tobacco was called Samporis. I couldn't find anything about it online, thus I cross-checked with the agronomist I work with. He said it's one of the Kasturi varieties. He called it Kasturi Sanporis. After reading this article, I am convinced that it has to be Kasturi. Supposedly this Kasturi Somporis has shorter leafs and is usually of a lower grade. By the way, that article also mentions that there are again sub-varieties within the varieties I just listed. There is Jepun Raje, Jepon Putih, Jepon Plake'an, Jepon Kene, Jepon Tanyak within the Kasturi Jepon, for instance.
I plan on collecting as many Kasturi varieties as I can find. I plan on growing them, so I can tell how (and if) they are different from one another. Those of you whom I have send Kasturi, I will, at one point, send you new Kasturi if you will, and label it more precise. So far I've got the Jepon/Jepun and the Sanporis/Somporis.
By the way, the difference is spelling is most likely to come from having Bahasa Indonesia, Madurese and Javanese. In Madurese, many vowels become "o", thus Jepun -> Jepon and Sanporis -> Somporis.
I plan to make a new thread on Indonesian sun cured varieties to take this thing to a broader level. There are many more varieties to collect here other than Kasturi and Besuki, and I am very much planning to collect them.
Kasturi Jepun
Kasturi Mawar
Kasturi Jimamut
Kasturi Merakot
Kasturi Somporis
Kasturi Baleno
A farmer whom I know well has said that the Kasturi Jepun and Kasturi Mawar can be told apart by looking at the leaf shape. He said that the leafs of Kasturi Mawar are longer and those of Kasturi Jepun are wider. He said he gave me Kasturi Jepun. Thus the earlier pictures in this thread of the plant in my back yard are Kasturi Jepun. The seeds I have sent to a few members on this forum are not from that plant, but from a field in the area where that farmer lives. I am glad I took photos, so I will show them to him later. He will confirm whether that is Kasturi Jepun as well. I suspect that it is. If it is Mawar, I've got myself a second variety.
During a trip today to Bondowoso I stopped at a field where the tobacco plants had already been harvested. There were still seedpods remaining so I asked the farmer what tobacco he was growing. Being in the Bondowoso area, I was hoping to find some Jatim varieties. This was prior to finding out about the different Kasturi types. He told me that the tobacco was called Samporis. I couldn't find anything about it online, thus I cross-checked with the agronomist I work with. He said it's one of the Kasturi varieties. He called it Kasturi Sanporis. After reading this article, I am convinced that it has to be Kasturi. Supposedly this Kasturi Somporis has shorter leafs and is usually of a lower grade. By the way, that article also mentions that there are again sub-varieties within the varieties I just listed. There is Jepun Raje, Jepon Putih, Jepon Plake'an, Jepon Kene, Jepon Tanyak within the Kasturi Jepon, for instance.
I plan on collecting as many Kasturi varieties as I can find. I plan on growing them, so I can tell how (and if) they are different from one another. Those of you whom I have send Kasturi, I will, at one point, send you new Kasturi if you will, and label it more precise. So far I've got the Jepon/Jepun and the Sanporis/Somporis.
By the way, the difference is spelling is most likely to come from having Bahasa Indonesia, Madurese and Javanese. In Madurese, many vowels become "o", thus Jepun -> Jepon and Sanporis -> Somporis.
I plan to make a new thread on Indonesian sun cured varieties to take this thing to a broader level. There are many more varieties to collect here other than Kasturi and Besuki, and I am very much planning to collect them.
Since you are making Kasturi a lifelong quest:
Bob
- Start taking average or representative measurements (typically 10th leaf) and photos of each sub-variety in fields where they are grown
- photograph each variety as a plant and as a typical, single leaf on a measurement board
- record the usual curing methods and industrial use of each
- elaborate a geographic map of the sub-varieties
- consider writing a technical paper, for publication
Bob
Tutu
Well-Known Member
With the rate that I am collecting at this moment, it shouldn't be a lifelong quest. I do intend to track certain things, but for now I am much more interested in collecting the different varieties, than comparing their exact measurements. I might do so in due time. I will, of course, observe the differences between sub-varieties. I am not sure to what extend it is possible to create a geographic map of sub-varieties, but I do intend to make a map for FTT on the different varieties I found thus far on East Java. Then again, it will be impossible for me to map everything. Countless villages, endless numbers of fields, all of it ever changing. But for sure I will do some sort of documentation.
One farmer whom I asked a lot of questions on the different Kasturi types has collected some of them for me. I've got the seeds in my possession as of now. Within Kasturi Jepun, there are yet more sub-varieties. There is Kasturi Jepun which is tall, there is one which is short, and there is one which has a tall hanging neck like a swan (the description of the farmer which I think is very fitting). Especially that later type of Kasturi is one I fancy for its looks. He also gave me Kasturi Balino, which is one that farmers further North from Jember, towards Bondowoso, are growing as well. He is still on the lookout for Kasturi Mawar. I am not sure if Kasturi Somporis is what I have found to be Samporis at various farmers, and is mixed-up with Kasturi names on the internet. So far every farmer who I asked has denied heavily that Samporis has anything to do with the Kasturi variety. They all say that Kasturi is much to thick for rajangan, and that they use Samporis. I wonder whether the stuff the use for rajang in Malaysia is more to the side of Samporis too.
I now have:
Kasturi Jepun Tinggi
Kasturi Jepun Pendek
Kasturi Jepun Angsa
Kasturi Balino
One farmer whom I asked a lot of questions on the different Kasturi types has collected some of them for me. I've got the seeds in my possession as of now. Within Kasturi Jepun, there are yet more sub-varieties. There is Kasturi Jepun which is tall, there is one which is short, and there is one which has a tall hanging neck like a swan (the description of the farmer which I think is very fitting). Especially that later type of Kasturi is one I fancy for its looks. He also gave me Kasturi Balino, which is one that farmers further North from Jember, towards Bondowoso, are growing as well. He is still on the lookout for Kasturi Mawar. I am not sure if Kasturi Somporis is what I have found to be Samporis at various farmers, and is mixed-up with Kasturi names on the internet. So far every farmer who I asked has denied heavily that Samporis has anything to do with the Kasturi variety. They all say that Kasturi is much to thick for rajangan, and that they use Samporis. I wonder whether the stuff the use for rajang in Malaysia is more to the side of Samporis too.
I now have:
Kasturi Jepun Tinggi
Kasturi Jepun Pendek
Kasturi Jepun Angsa
Kasturi Balino
Smokin Harley
Well-Known Member
Looks like a great idea until the wind decides to pop up
The variety in Malaysia is quite hard to study because it is not documented properly. I spent some time researching through internet and found almost nothing about the variety of Malaysian tobacco. I live too far away from places that plant traditional tobacco to do my own research.
However, during my father visit to Kedah, he bought me a tobacco from street market there and he claimed it to be Thailand variety of tobacco. And the taste is almost the same with my everyday tobacco. This added to my confusion because I always thought that I am smoking Malaysian tobacco.
It is possible that some of Indonesian variety is in Malaysia because my ancestor are also from Java. It is possible some of the migrant bring with them tobacco seed from Java to plant in Malaysia.
I think you do a fantastic job on that already.
It's a big thing to do, but also interesting, It will be interesting to read about this and follow you in her.
Tutu
Well-Known Member
A few pictures of a place where Kasturi is being bought and processed. I'm afraid these warehouses are rather dark so the pictures aren't as sharp as the quality I usually post. These were taken with my phone rather than my camera.
Great photos. This one looks like the tobacco foothills, with a tobacco mountain rising in the distance.
Bob
DistillingJim
Well-Known Member
I've really enjoyed the Katsuri I grew with your seeds Tutu. I've found it air cures better than flu (I know I'm meant to sun cure but I do live in the UK). Nice in the pipe with a bit of perique but needs something else added to stop it being too overpowering. Experimentation is in progress.
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