Kiln advice

[NWgrower]

I’d love some criticism of my current kiln set up. I’ll briefly describe what I do and then ask a couple of questions;

I’m using a chest freezer with a temp control. Crock pot is used to heat and add moisture simultaneously. I’m using an old steel rack with 6-8 hands just stacked up inside it. A small fan inside the chamber stays on all day. I turn it off and pull them all out each night. I untie and shake out each hand every evening and re-start the whole process again in the morning.

My questions are;

Should the hands be wrapped in a towel? I just watched a YouTube vid where that’s what was done.

How high can I pack hands in there? When I started this batch I had it over packed according to advice from this forum but now I’m questioning that since a “pilone” is packed so dense. It just made me wonder why I shouldn’t.

Anyone kind enough to read this entire post, please feel free to weigh in on any aspect of the process I described!

Thanks all!

 

[The Haroo ln]

Firstly your kiln setup sounds great, similar to mine only mine is a larder fridge.

Secondly, i wouldn't advise wrapping in a towel at all as it causes humid spots eventually leading to rot/mold depending on what temps your using. It can also cause uneven fermentation and the leaves will just stick together from all the oils and stuff. If your RH is above 80% the towel fibres will stick to the leaves on the outer-most bundle/hand. Also nake sure you hands are not touching the walls/floor/roof/doors.

As far as commercial fermentation in pilones goesthe pilones only act as a thermal 'blanket' of sorts. The temp is only the highest in the middle of the pilone never on the outside hence why they flip them - outside in, inside out, top to bottom and bottom to top. No need to do this on a small scale homegrow unless your growing 2000 pound of crop. They need this weight to make their tobacco hit the desired temps. Plus commercial pilones have controlled airflow intake/exhaust.

Finally it would be easier to see if you could attach some pics. Just makes it easier for everybody. Hope this helps

Btw what temps/RH are you fermenting at?

 

[NWgrower]

Thanks much for the reply and tips. I’ll get pics uploaded as soon as I can.

 

[StoneCarver]

I don't understand why your are shutting down the kiln and taking the hands out each evening. I believe you ought to leave it running 24/7.
Its my understanding that this is why kilning is so much quicker than fermentation in a pilon. In a pilon, the tobacco on the edges doesn't get to that higher temperature and humidity like the tobacco in the center of the pilon which is why they rotate the tobacco and restack the pilon regularly. With a kiln, all of the tobacco gets exposed to the higher temperature and humidity all of the time.

 

[Kushtaka]

Like any large compost pile part of turning pilons is to cool them down. If you leave a large pile of dead plants like that unturned it will burn from the center out with a real risk of fire.

 

[deluxestogie]

Composting is primarily a microbial process. Fermentation of tobacco is primarily an oxidative process utilizing intrinsic enzymes within the leaf lamina. Within a well controlled kiln (123° to 128°F), with adequate air movement, there is no need to rotate the leaf.

Bob

 

[FarmingMachinery]

Great setup! The chest freezer + crock pot + fan combination is actually a really clever DIY approach — I've seen similar logic used in small-scale commercial curing units from Chinese manufacturers, where they combine an insulated chamber, heat source, humidity tray, and circulating fan in a compact box.

A few thoughts based on what others have already shared:

On the 24/7 vs. nightly shutdown question — I'd lean toward running it continuously if you can maintain stable temps. The whole advantage of a kiln over pilon fermentation is the consistent environment. That said, if your chest freezer setup has trouble maintaining temp overnight without overheating, the nightly shutdown might actually be a practical workaround. What temps are you running at during the day vs. what happens if you leave it on overnight?

On packing density — I've found that airflow is more important than tight packing. The fan helps, but if the hands are packed too tightly, the center can still get poor circulation. Leaving some gaps between bundles usually gives more even results. The commercial units I've seen often use rack systems with spacing between layers rather than tight stacking.

One thing that might help: if you can monitor the temp at different points in the chamber (top, bottom, center, edges), you'll get a much better sense of how even the environment is. Even a couple of cheap digital thermometers can make a big difference.

What temperature range are you targeting for this batch?

 

[NWgrower]

Got busy. Sorry for the late replies fellas.

I tried uploading pics but looks like I’ll have to do some homework before posting them. File too large. I’m stupid with technology!

My current temp range is set to 110-120. I bury the temp probe beneath a hand of tobacco so I know the internal temps are high enough but I don’t want to overshoot. I could get more accurate (closer to Bob’s recommended range) but I think that will take a fair bit of tinkering with multiple thermometers to ensure accurate reads of surrounding temp and internal leaf temps.

I appreciate all the feedback everyone. Still working on posting pics!

 

[NWgrower]

Composting is primarily a microbial process. Fermentation of tobacco is primarily an oxidative process utilizing intrinsic enzymes within the leaf lamina. Within a well controlled kiln (123° to 128°F), with adequate air movement, there is no need to rotate the leaf.

Bob

Bob, when you say, “there is no need to rotate the leaf” do this mean I’m wasting time by untying each hand every night? I do this to allow the leaf to dry out somewhat (every night).

Or, do you mean that the rearranging of the hands done when dealing with massive pilotos is unnecessary?

Thanks!

 

[The Haroo ln]

You shouldn't really have to open the kiln every night/day. Unless your airing out excess ammonia. If your having to dry your leaves out every night, then your humidity is too high. The RH needs to be a minimum of around 64/65% coupled with the heat for fermentation to take place. Usually around 70%-75% being the sweet spot.

From my experience last year, my rh was above 85% for the entire 4-6 weeks that i kilned for. When i used to open the fridge to fill the crockpot i had condensation all inside the kiln which had then dripped onto my leaves and kept them wet/soggy. This then spilled out all the oils and strength from my leaves.

I would advise controlling your RH better and maybe insulating your kiln. But chest freezers are usually very insulated so this shouldnt be a problem unless you have a crack somewhere or the seal gasket as ripped/broken.

Also flipping the leaves isnt neccesary if your hanging them. If you have the leaves piled up in the kiln then i would reccomend piling very loosely to allow the air/heat/rh to hit all the leaves evenly.

 

[deluxestogie]

Rearranging the hands within a massive pilon is required because there is no external heat source, only the exothermic heating of oxidation within the very center of the pilon.

Within a kiln, if the temp is always above 122°F, mold cannot grow, regardless of the humidity. The leaf itself does not need to dry until the end of kilning (after 6 to 8 weeks).

Bob