Levi’s 2018 freezer kiln build/ Flue curing chamber.

[Levi Gross]

Here it is my kiln/ flue cure chamber.
It is not complete but everything is up online for a testrun. I am using an Inkbird ITC-310T Heat Controller and an Inkbird IHC-200 Humidity Controller. An electric griddle for heat and small crockpot for humidity.
The freezer is a Frigidaire stand up with the compressor unplugged and it’s internal fan is running to circulate air.
At 8:30 P.M. the temperature was 83 Fahrenheit @67% RH, it’s now at 88 Fahrenheit @ 80% RH this is with only the crockpot on high with the lid off so I am going to need to do some tweaking around. The plan is to use the griddle for heat and crockpot for humidity. I have also strongly considered just kilning in mason jars with my tobacco shredded and in order already. Having to use only a heat source. At this time though I believe all the bases are covered for fermentation and flue curing.

 

[Levi Gross]

I’m not really crazy about the wires on the outside but I’ve got some electric conduit to run them all through to clean things. I just wanted to see if everything was going to work properly.

 

[deluxestogie]

Unless the Crockpot is a tiny one, it should be able to heat the kiln all by itself. Currently, I fill my Crockpot (I think it's 170 watts) with my hottest tap water, without unplugging it for a refill, so that I don't crack the ceramic. The temp rapidly gets back up to the set point. Starting from room temperature, with cold tap water, my Crockpot takes many hours to initially get up to set point.

Bob

 

[CobGuy]

Nice ... that's my set-up arrangement too but I need to look into those Inkbird Controllers.

~Darin

 

[Charly]

Nice and clean set up good luck with the kilning/flue curing tests !

I use a similar Inkbird controller, it is easy to use and set up, for now it works really nicely. I am happy with it

 

[Levi Gross]

The Inkbird controls are working smoothly. I’m running @123 Fahrenheit and 75% RH. However I am struggling with the leaf coming into order. Especially in the upper portion of the kiln. The freezers fan run continuously to circulate Air from the bottom to the top and the sensors are placed in that air stream at the top. The griddle is set on the heat control and the crockpot is set up on the humidity control. I can run the kiln up to temperature and humidity in about an hours time. Something seems to be NOT spot on yet though. Semois leaf is about a week in and is changing nicely, better to dry than wet.

 

[deluxestogie]

Above 120°F, it won't matter how moist the leaf becomes. (Avoid cold spots, like pressing against the sides.) You might try disconnecting the griddle, and controlling the Crockpot with the temperature controller instead of the humidity controller.

Bob

 

[Levi Gross]

I am posting an update as to how my kiln has been working for me. It’s a water consuming monster. And since I quit fueling it with distilled water and started using house water, my inkbird humidity control didn’t make it two months. Salt corrosion ate up the sensor. Inkbird was kind enough to send me a new sensor and pigtail that I must solder myself. The remedy that I came up with was to try the jar method. This works very well and eliminated the need for a humidity source. I have also went and purchased a food saver vacuum sealer. I have had my bags of vacuum sealed tobacco In Working Order in the kiln for two days now. I am just wondering how well this is going to work. We shall see in about three weeks.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

My experience with vacuum seal bags was that tobacco will dry out, that's why I switched to buckets.

 

[Levi Gross]

My experience with vacuum seal bags was that tobacco will dry out, that's why I switched to buckets.

China, I don’t understand how that’s possible these bags are seriously sealed tight and tobacco is in higher case. Did you loose the seal in your bags? Or is there something that I am missing with thinking this will work. The jar tobacco did great. I never tried it vacuum sealed

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Plastic is a polymer. Polymers are made of long carbon chains. They are linear in nature. A plastic bag is essentially a woven fabric of these fibers, many layers thick. Although plastic appears solid, it does not have a solid surface like that of metals. It can hold liquid water because the surface tension of the water prevents it from pouring through. However water vapor can pass through thinner plastics. The bags that WLT uses are intentionally of a type of plastic and of sufficient thickness to prevent evaporation through the bag. However, the vacuum seal bags with the cross-hatching are a different plastic and they aren't as thick, so they don't keep tobacco moist forever, (unless you lived in a humid environment).

 

[Levi Gross]

Plastic is a polymer. Polymers are made of long carbon chains. They are linear in nature. A plastic bag is essentially a woven fabric of these fibers, many layers thick. Although plastic appears solid, it does not have a solid surface like that of metals. It can hold liquid water because the surface tension of the water prevents it from pouring through. However water vapor can pass through thinner plastics. The bags that WLT uses are intentionally of a type of plastic and of sufficient thickness to prevent evaporation through the bag. However, the vacuum seal bags with the cross-hatching are a different plastic and they aren't as thick, so they don't keep tobacco moist forever, (unless you lived in a humid environment).

This is truly bummer news for me. The bags I have are exactly as you describe however they are reasonably thick. The bags I get from Don would not vacuum seal for me though. I may have to rethink this. If the water vapor can pass through how does the bag stay vacuum sealed?

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

This is truly bummer news for me. The bags I have are exactly as you describe however they are reasonably thick. The bags I get from Don would not vacuum seal for me though. I may have to rethink this. If the water vapor can pass through how does the bag stay vacuum sealed?

I don't know that they do indefinitely maintain vacuum unless they're frozen.

Listen, if they are in your kiln, and in high case, it will take a long time for them to dry out; longer than a month or two. Long term storage is an issue.

Also, realize that the indoors humidity in Edmonton in winter (November through April) is somewhere close to zero, so maybe my experience doesn't even apply to your situation. If that's the case, I apologize for making you worry.

Also, those bags are great for food. You'll find all sorts of uses for them.

 

[Levi Gross]

I’ve been wanting a vacuum sealer for a very long time. For Tobacco, storing seeds, storing beef jerky that I make etc. I appreciate your insight.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I haven't tried. Be careful not to crush your seeds.

One thing you'll like is that you can press a brick of tobacco for a few minutes, then vacuum seal it and it will hold it snug so you don't have to leave it on your press all day (or days)

 

[deluxestogie]

Make Your Brain Hurt!
Neither polyethylene bags nor poly/Nylon bags are "woven", that is, synthesized in a predictable, ordered array of strands. They are either blown from liquid or extruded, resulting in random "fiber" layers.

WLT bags are multi-layer, laminated poly/Nylon (polyethylene--like a sandwich bag, and Nylon). I believe that the cross-hatched food-saver bags are the same material. The purpose of the cross-hatching is to allow the vacuum to be drawn for a greater fraction of the seal-fusing time. That's why the WLT bags don't vacuum-seal as easily.

Polyethylene, even the thicker, "freezer" bags, are water-proof (because of surface tension), but not vapor-proof (individual water molecules). As the ambient temperature rises, the rate of vapor transpiration through polyethylene increases. By contrast, laminated poly/Nylon is far less permeable to water vapor, on the order of 1/10 as permeable. Increasing thickness (mils) also decreases vapor permeability.

The original poly/nylon bags from WLT (still seen on some product) appears to be about 6 mils thick, and seems to hold tobacco at its original moisture content indefinitely. The larger and newer bags seem to be about 3 mils, and seem to hold their moisture for a period measured in one to two years.

All of this discussion is about diffusion rates. It's the second law of thermodynamics. Differences in concentration of any specific atom or molecule will tend toward equalization. Barriers strive to slow down the process. For water vapor, we measure the difference in relative humidity. As the ambient temperature surrounding a sealed, "vapor-proof" container increases (say, in a kiln), the relative humidity falls--warmer air holds more water, increasing the rate of vapor transpiration through the barrier. But it's all relative.

If you use sealed polyethylene bags in a kiln, the drying of the bag's contents is quite rapid (over a few days). With a poly/Nylon bag, instead, I would guess the drying would occur over a period of a few weeks or more. So a month of kilning of tobacco in medium case, sealed within a poly/Nylon food-saver bag should not fully dry the leaf too much.

Another Issue with a sealed bag
Much of the gases generated by oxidative processes within the leaf will be trapped in the bag. I don't believe that's much of a problem in itself, but may require a longer period of airing after the kilning is completed. I would suggest allowing the leaf to fully desiccate in an open bag after kilning, prior to bringing it back into low case for storage.

Bob

 

[Thedbs999]

Levi
I use the mason jar curing method. I bring leaves into high case, remove a major part of the main stem. Make a pile, bend the pile over on itself in half, and roll them up and put into the sealed jar. I might need several jars. Right now I've got the seco leaves from 5 corojo 99 plants in 3 quart sized mason jars. Also ,i have the ligero leaves and volado leaves from the corojo 99 jared too. My inkbird keeps the small crock pot between 125 and 128. I never have to full with water in the crock pot. Once a week I remove the lids and put them back on. I don't know if I need to do the lid removal or not, but I do. After 4weeks all the leaves are spread and dried out and stored in Dons vapor proof bags. I must say after kilning in the jars the aroma is wonderful.

Dan

 

[deluxestogie]

Dan,
That's interesting. It seems you are using a sous vide method. So long as the leaf is coming out in the end with their expected color, then I would assume it would be successful. I think that approach would be the simplest for home growers with only a modest size crop to kiln. I have a fairly large kiln, and it's too small for my crop.

When I was recently making Cavendish in quart jars, I bundled individual, froglegged leaves, and stuffed about 10 per jar--1 jar per variety. I'm sure, with more aggressive packing, I could have fit 20 per jar. But then, I really didn't want more Cavendish.

Bob

 

[Thedbs999]

Bob
i hope I didn't leave the impression that I put the leaves in the jars with green color. This process was first done last year and the leaves turned out beautiful in color. The aroma was such that I didn't want to leave my kitchen where I dried them. I actually stalked harvested these 5 corojo 99 plants and they hung in my garage for several months color cured nicely. Iam only now getting around jarring and the kiln.

Yes a extremely easy process for minimal number of plants. I love the fact that there is no need to keep filling the crock pot with water. Just let the Inkbird do it's thing. Also no mold. I've got 5 polito Cubano plants to do after these are done. i could have done them at the same time,but Iam too cheap to buy more quart mason jars. I hope this years leaves turn out as nice.

Dan

 

[deluxestogie]

i hope I didn't leave the impression that I put the leaves in the jars with green color.

You did not. My comment about expected color is to consider the difference between kilned leaf (the final colors are appropriate for the variety and the priming level) and cooked leaf (Cavendish), in which all the leaves are dark. The former is expected @ 128°F, whereas the latter would happen with the use of a Crockpot that is not controlled with a temperature controller.

You done good.

Bob