Making Latakia at Home

[Jvergen]

Whew! It's exhausting to comment on pseudo experts.

This is the entirety of my home-grown herb harvest for 2019. There is English lavender, mint and Greek oregano. I'll put them out on the back porch to dry.

On the "soapy" front, I ordered some "Organic, unscented, hypoallergenic soap." When it arrived, I noted immediately that it smelled "soapy"--that is, it smelled like old fashion, scented soap. The label touted its wonderfulness, but the ingredients listed "oil of rosemary." Unscented? Rosemary?

I emailed the vendor to inquire as to why my unscented soap was scented. His response was that, in the absence of chemical antioxidants to keep the soap from going rancid, rosemary has been used for centuries--since it contains natural antioxidants.

Latakia smells "soapy".
Rosemary stems turned into charcoal smell like Latakia.
Rosemary has long been used in preserving soap.

Bob

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Jeff

 

[docpierce]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and offer some thoughts on the latakia project. Full disclosure: I'm the guy you might have seen on the roadside raking up literally tons of fallen acorns to produce "acorn fattened Berkshire pork". That five year project was, in my mind a success but also personally exhausting. I'm glad it's over. I know quixotic. I'm not here to criticize anyone for quirky project ideas.
Here goes:

Question: are we trying to recreate Syrian latakia or doing early research for a possible domestic latakia industry? If the latter- we should probably avoid depending on "exotic" combustibles- resins and oils or planting special trees, etc. If the former, awesome! I'm on board for that too. We can try lots of things to get that certain soapy taste.

But if, we are trying to help pave the way for a possible future with domestic latakia production- because as Syrian and Cypriot sources disappear, domestic production of latakia may become a necessity.

Due to shear quantities of combustible materials required for 6 weeks of burning. (bagloads if not truck loads), it may not be feasible to bring in offsite material or developing oil sprays for them. Those ideas are interesting and worthy but probably not practical for large scale production. Perhaps it might be better to develop practices to develop our own, unique products. Markets and taste preferences often develop around new and unique products. Perhaps it's better to see Cyprus latakia as a departure point rather than an end goal. We have different flora with their own unique aromatic qualities. Attempting to replicate Syrian latakia may be merely an interesting academic inquiry- that product is something from another time and another hemisphere.

I'm going to attempt this project with what I can scrounge in my immediate area of inland NorthernCalif. Although it maybe be possible to contact the local botanical gardens for mastic tree trimmings, etc. As they have got a huge variety of plants and shrubs over there.

I can envision someday, a small, local latakia industry that produces oriental tobacco and fumigates the stuff on site- then exports it to blenders at a small profit. Easily available materials and labor are in my mind as possible obstacles for such a project. Environmental Air quality laws might factor in this also. A cottage industry that would employ several workers.

 

[deluxestogie]

Tobacco is fire-cured in huge barns in Kentucky. They use woods and tobacco that are not suitable for Latakia. I'm trying to figure out how to make Latakia. I've fire-cured various tobacco varieties a number of times with various woods. The results were interesting, but not Latakia.

I certainly have nothing against discovering new kinds of tobacco processing. This particular effort, at least on my part, is to duplicate, as closely as possible, Latakia, which is the foundation of many superb English and Balkan pipe blends.

Bob

 

[GreenDragon]

Answer: we are having fun and if we come up with something that even closely resembles Latakia (Cyprian or Syrian) that can be used as a substitute in a pipe blend it will be a double bonus. Personally, I’m just in it for that awesome certificate. I’ve already got a frame picked out!

 

[docpierce]

Tobacco is fire-cured in huge barns in Kentucky. They use woods and tobacco that are not suitable for Latakia. I'm trying to figure out how to make Latakia. I've fire-cured various tobacco varieties a number of times with various woods. The results were interesting, but not Latakia.

I certainly have nothing against discovering new kinds of tobacco processing. This particular effort, at least on my part, is to duplicate, as closely as possible, Latakia, which is the foundation of many superb English and Balkan pipe blends.

Bob

ok. Got it.

 

[docpierce]

Thanks. just clarifying goals of the project.
Might I suggest bee propolis. The stuff is amazing and could hold interesting possibilities. It is, after all made up of tree resins. Mainly conifers. Smells really nice when burned. Like a earthy incense. As you may be aware, bees use it to glue their hives together, keep other insects out, block knot holes and I presume stop winter drafts. Beekeepers are constantly scraping it off of their hive tools and getting bee frames unstuck. Chunks of it could be added to smouldering ashes in the pan. I think I'll try it and see for myself.

 

[GreenDragon]

Officially started my entry today. Stung 3 wires of WLT stacked Basma. Today’s wood is Piñon, Bald Cyress, Alder, and Tumeric leaves. Working on the smoky base first. Will worry about top notes later in the process.

 

[deluxestogie]

This will be so interesting. I've never even smelled alder used for smoking stuff. And our pines are different pines. (Mine is white pine.)

You picked a mighty fine tobacco leaf to use.

When you burn-tested turmeric leaf, how's it smell?

Bob

 

[GreenDragon]

Mentholy gingery. I soaked them in water so it will smoke instead of just carbonizing as I picked these a couple days ago. Leaves are very thin. I have several ginger and turmeric plants in the yard and I’m just chucking the cuttings in when I trim them. The dried leaves give a powerful burst of menthol when crushed. I’m thinking of just using hand ginger from the grocery store next as an experiment. Will update after test.

 

[GreenDragon]

Alder wood gives a very neutral smoke smell that (to me) I don’t associate with BBQ / food. I believe it’s used to smoke fish in the north west.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Alder is one of the primary smoke woods in Alberta for those who don't buy those stupid smoking wood pucks.

Alder is easy to find in the wild on crown land, and it's relatively easy to thin out in a way that doesn't seem greedy. It grows most often in the transition zone between riparian woodland and aspen parkland, (between the willow and the poplar).

It is an incredible flavour for meat, cheese, etc. But it sadly doesn't taste like Latakia.

 

[deluxestogie]

The aroma of charcoal produced from rosemary stems was so startlingly similar to the aroma of Latakia, that I got rather curious. I searched for an analysis of what is in rosemary oil. It turns out that it shares many of the same terpenes that are in mastic (Tears of Chios, from Pistacia lentiscus), and are common in many other evergreen trees (pines, junipers, etc.)

__________
Here's a sketchy summary (mine) of the analysis of rosemary oil, followed by a layman's hint of the general aroma):
2 α-Pinene 9.32% -----> pine
4 Camphene 5.07% -----> camphor
10 Limonene 3.19% -----> camphor / lemon
11 1,8-Cineole 37.75% -----> camphor
18 Camphor 18.13% -----> camphor
28 α-Terpineol 6.98% -----> forest like
29 Borneol 8.17% -----> camphor
34 Eugenol methyl ether 0.47% ----->clove
35 Eugenol 0.29% -----> clove

Cineole, borneol, pinene and camphor are the major constituents of rosemary oil, comprising about 28, 18, 12 and 10 % of the oil.
__________

For chemistry geeks, like @GreenDragon, here is the 3 page article (.pdf) in all its scientific detail for you to download: Chemical Composition of the Essential Oil of Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis L.) of Tunisian Origin

And bay leaf: "A high content of methyl eugenol (19 ± 4%; 21 ± 1%) and α-terpinyl acetate (18 ± 5%; 17 ± 7%) was found in commercial food items, whereas 1,8-cineole (51%) and α-terpinyl acetate (10%) were the main compounds in commercial pharmaceutical items."
[https://www.researchgate.net/public...obilis_L_Essential_Oils_in_Commercial_Samples]

I just stuck my nose into a large bag of Cyprian Latakia. I actually can't separate out any of those specific aroma. I just smell "Latakia". But that's also exactly what I smelled in the rosemary stem charcoal. You would think that ~2/3 of the stuff being camphor-like would scream out, "camphor", but I don't smell it.

In summary, this is beginning to clarify my understanding of why the burn tests that smelled "right" (see the table in a previous post) registered in my brain that way.

Bob

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I think Latakia may be all black because it's covered in more of a distillation gas /condensate, than a buildup of smoke. So I think one should consider solely using charcoal as different from using the fuel-source uncharred.

Based on Bob's last post, I can't help but wonder if something as simple as pine charcoal would work.

 

[deluxestogie]

Pine has pinene, but it's missing some key aromas. So it's compatible, but incomplete. There is definitely condensate deposited onto Latakia, but it's also "smoky" stuff.

We will solve this challenge soon.

Bob

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Pine has pinene, but it's missing some key aromas. So it's compatible, but incomplete. There is definitely condensate deposited onto Latakia, but it's also "smoky" stuff.

We will solve this challenge soon.

Bob

I wish I had a back yard.

 

[deluxestogie]

After weeks of tedious fire-building, and trips out to the smoker, and cutting up wood, and preparing tinder and kindling, and constantly smelling like a camping trip, I though it was about time to check the calendar, to see if I'm almost done. Sadly, today turns out to be only the 7th day of firing. It feels like it's been much, much longer. I've been firing it 2 or 3 times a day, which means that I've built 15 or 20 fires over the past week.

So I have about 5 more weeks to go with this. And the outcome is, of course, uncertain. I haven't even peeked at the leaf since I began. They may have caught fire and burned to ash days ago. Since I know what the firing looks like after about 4 or 5 weeks, I'll start checking the leaf color and aroma--if there are still leaves--in a few weeks.

I sure hope this works, because I don't think I'll be doing this again.

Bob

Edit: I think the reason that I've waited so many years before trying to make Latakia again is that the human brain requires a while before it forgets how unpleasant a task was, and finally focuses on how wonderful it might be to solve the challenge.

 

[GreenDragon]

Today’s firing:
Smoke wood - Cypress and Piñon
Flavor packet - Bee balm, lemon leaves, rosemary, basil, cinnamon, cloves

Prevalent scent was pine with a little lemon. I still need to hit the trails and grab some Juniper. I have a stash of dried rosemary and lavender to use for the final few smokes to finish the batch. These early sessions are purely experimental. Having a lot of fun.

 

[deluxestogie]

I was just reading a mid-19th century discussion of Latakia production. It's loaded with nonsense, but does mention using a Mediterranean variety of evergreen oak among the firing woods. If anyone has access to dried wood from one of the several species of Live Oak, which is an evergreen oak, it might be worth a burn test. If it smells like oak when burned, then it fails the test.

Live oak in the south-eastern US was nearly expunged from the region during the age of great sailing ships. The wood was particularly sought for constructing the curved bulkheads and knee braces of ships' hulls, and occasionally for the planking of the hull as well. It's extremely dense wood, but always with a crooked or curving grain, so you can't easily saw or split the stuff into tidy firewood.

Bob

 

[GreenDragon]

There is a lot of live oak in NE Florida where I grew up. You are correct in that it’s grain is very haphazard and almost impossible to split. (It was one of my chores as a kid.) Locals called it scrub oak. When burned... it smells like oak. Strong smoke smell. Very popular with BBQ restaurants.

 

[deluxestogie]

I suppose the problem with the reported use of Mediterranean evergreen oak is that there are many different species of evergreen oaks, genetically unrelated to one another. And I'm not confident in the 19th century report, since most of those "experts" published hearsay and legends. " Fires are lighted from any type of brushwood available in the area. Oak is said to produce the best results, though pine is the most commonly used."

BAT (British-American Tobacco) in 1964 states, regarding Cyprus Latakia, "The plants used mainly for fumigation are Cyprus Myrtle and Lentisk [Mastic tree]. Pine, Carob and the Scrub Oak used in Syria are not used though they grow in the vicinity." Yet, it 1984 BAT says this:

"some names of woods used in Cyprus, which mentions proper names and may be of use:
[percent used in each cure]"

• MASTIC - PISTACIA LENTISCUS: 90%
• MYRTLE - MYRTUS COMMUNIS ROMANA: 4 %
• STONE PINE - PINUS PINEA PINUS PINASTER: 4 %
• CYPRESS TREE - CYPRESSUS SEMPERVIRENS: 1%
• KONISON- ? : 1%

I've smoked both Cyprus Latakia as well as Syrian Latakia. Nobody uses any wood that smells like burned oak.

Bob