Pipe smoker from Italy & questions on Navy rolls: @markvendra

[markvendra]

Hello people, I'm Marco, a long time pipe smoker and cigar smoker (of those silly italian ones called Toscani).
In recent months I started to make my own pipe tobacco, mainly because market supply is shrinking and traditional "simple" tobacco is disappearing to due low demand and higher legal constraints on makers (ie traceability).
I use only Orange/Lemon Virginia leaf made in the south eastern of Europe. I do think they are air cured but i'm not sure how to tell the difference.

Here I am because I want to share some thoughts and get some advice on navy rolls or twist or whatever is it called.
My process is as follow:
• fast steam cooking and destemming
• spray of casing made of 100 water, 20/30 ml of liquor (whisky, rum, grappa), 5 ml propylene glycol, 1 tsp brown sugar
• make a twist and tied it up with a packer's knot and let it mature for a few months.
• after the cut i put the rolls in an oven or under the sun to dry up and "sanitize"

There are some thoughts I want you to ask:
• best thickness of the twist
• do you put a cloth? sometimes i've used oven paper for that
• use only liquer and not water. I ask this because i find the moisture level very high even after months
• how to have a fine cut? i cannot get thin slice, it seems always to expand

thank you
MV

 

[deluxestogie]

Welcome to the forum. You may wish to scan through the topics in our Index of Key Forum Threads, linked in the menu bar.

Bob

 

[Wombat_smokes]

Welcome to the forum. The Key Threads Index is an amazing place to start. Scroll all they way down to Pipe Tobacco Blending & Pressing section. Here are some threads I found useful for making Sailor's Perique/Plug/Carote & Pressed Plug. Juxstaposer has a great discussion about how he prepares all of his pipe tobacco, including casing, making plugs & navy flake. ProZachJ's 2024 Grow Log includes some info about making his carotte/Sailor's Perique. And here is the make your own cased/flavored tobacco thread

The expansion is from not making the twist tight enough. The excess moisture suggests too much propylene glycol. Brown sugar is hygroscopic (the reason cookies made with brown sugar are softer than those made with white sugar).

No need to steam the tobacco, unless you want to make a Cavendish. Case the tobacco with whatever you like, just don't go beyond high case - the leaves should be pliable like soft leather, not wet. A little casing liquid goes a long way.

Despite all of the great instructions, tips & tricks; nothing teaches you like doing. I wish you the best of luck with your Sailor's Twist and Navy Plug.

 

[Juxtaposer-]

I use a noodle press rather than making twists but I’ll comment here. You can invert the sugar by boiling it in an equal volume of water with an acid for ten minutes. I use citric acid, most use vinegar. Other wise you certainly could skip the water. I do not like PG flavor but it may reduce the risk of mold. The thickness of the twist should be limited otherwise cutting may become even more difficult. Binding techniques can be used for increased pressure. Cloth over paper will facilitate holding the pressure of the prick. As far as slicing goes, unless you get a plug cutter or some other gadget, you will need to practice cutting as thin as possible. It does seem to be impossible to get a shag. Try adding a Toscani as a birds eye. Steaming and stoving can also be done as cooking methods for different outcomes. I would avoid exposing tobacco to direct sunlight. So far it seems you are doing well.

 

[Alpine]

Welcome to FTT

pier

 

[markvendra]

Thank you all the kind reply and for the preciuos tips.
I wonder if steaming the leaf is a good idea or not. In Italy I was told to do that in order to "soften" the taste, but here none of you does that.
@Juxtaposer When you talk about PG you mean like the soapy-like taste?
MV

 

[GreenDragon]

Welcome to the forum!
Leave out the PG or the tobacco will never "dry". Also, it tastes awful. Commercial manufacturers add it to keep the tobacco soft and pliable purely for aesthetic reasons.
To get a thin shred take 1 or 2 leaves and roll them into a tight cigar shape, and use a sharp chef knife to slice off coins. The thicker the "cigar" the harder it is to make thin slices.

 

[Juxtaposer-]

Steamed tobacco will get called “Cavendish”. You will see talk about making cavendish more than you will about steaming tobacco.

 

[markvendra]

thanks for the info. i need to learn more and try more about the PG. I ve seen that nearly all the commercial tobaccos use PG or VG so i thought it was a smart thing to do

 

[deluxestogie]

nearly all the commercial tobaccos use PG

It is used to keep the feel of the tobacco squishy, for marketing. It has a slight effect on reducing mold. The recent addition of PG to commercial blends that enjoyed for years (prior to having PG added by the marketeers) is one of the reasons I no longer buy them.

Bob

 

[markvendra]

Do you think it is possibile to remove Propylene from the tobacco if heated in the owen over its boiling point for few minutes?
Lately i have tongue irritation when i smoke this tobacco and this never occured to me before. I kind of feel it is the PG.

 

[GreenDragon]

I assume you are referring to commercial blends? To my knowledge PG is not added to unprocessed whole leaf tobacco. PG is very water soluble. I’ve successfully removed it by soaking the tobacco for one minute in cool water, straining the water off, and spreading the tobacco out to dry.

Note: straight Virginia blends are known for tongue bite. Make sure it’s dry before packing the pipe, and smoke slow and cool.

 

[markvendra]

Thank you people. I did realize that PG was hurting my smoke so i followed your suggestion and washed all the tobacco in cold water. Problem solved. Now I am making a new batch following your way.
Ps: do you find plug/flake tobacco better compared to rolls? Personally i have always liked more rolls than flakes My top choice is the three nuns but that is not available in Italy. So thank you Juxtaposer when you told me to use Toscani as birdeye! After so much time i connected it to the 3 nuns