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The economics of buying whole leaf and how I shred it

pottsS

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Have you attempted yet to clean the gunk off of the cutting blades?

Bob
No, I've thought about how I might tho...I'll keep the tobacco on the dry side and see how it goes. With my old shredder, once I found out that I was better off sifting a little bit of fines out because the tobacco was too dry, rather than cleaning the wheel and changing blades because of tobacco gum I never had to clean it again. I may be a little optimistic, but hopefully if I have to clean it I can just brush it with vinegar and then oil it?
 

pottsS

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I finished shredding the eleven # bag of threshed leaves I had. So far so good. I put the front casters back on the shredder, that gives about a ten degree lean so it makes the approach to the cutters just that much more straight. I widened the slot of my cake pan to match the throat of the shredder (I had intentionally bottlenecked it, but I concluded I could do without that bottleneck!) I started out pretty cautious...I didn't want to push it to the point where I tripped the motors thermal protection. I started out 6minutes on/15 off, I pushed it up to 9/15...then I just taped a temperature probe onto the motor casing and have been running it up to 38 c which gives me 15/15, so far I haven't tripped the thermal protection. In 15 minutes I can shred enough for 3 cartons of cigarettes (close to 1.5#) In the future I will probably just shred 1.5# at once. I'm probably better off storing the tobacco in threshed leaf form rather than shredded, and there is almost no set up or clean up so I have no motivation to sit down and do 11 pounds in one sitting. How dirty did it get? I'll post a picture of the cutter from the top and a picture of the rakes from the bottom. I might lubricate it or use a paper shredder cleaner sheet in it before I use it again, but I don't see the need of cleaning it just yet.DSCF9211.JPGDSCF9212.JPG
 

pottsS

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I guess I should add a little perspective to making it to the 11# milestone. 11 pounds should be about 25 cartons of cigs, so overall this venture has cost me $10/carton so far....if I make it to the 22# milestone the cost will be $5/carton...which is less than I spend on tubes. The only machine I had available for shipping to me would cost twice as much...so it would need to reach 40# to make the same cost/carton...and yet from the reviews, the machine does wonderfully...but rarely makes it beyond 40#. The powermatic which will live forever...it just isn't available in Canada...if it was it would need to shred 70# to be at the same price/carton. I'm kind of anxious to see just how far this paper shredder will go and what the final economics of it will be...but on the other hand, I'd rather smoke much less so I hope I can't update you on the 22# milestone for at least a year.
 

Knucklehead

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I guess I should add a little perspective to making it to the 11# milestone. 11 pounds should be about 25 cartons of cigs, so overall this venture has cost me $10/carton so far....if I make it to the 22# milestone the cost will be $5/carton...which is less than I spend on tubes. The only machine I had available for shipping to me would cost twice as much...so it would need to reach 40# to make the same cost/carton...and yet from the reviews, the machine does wonderfully...but rarely makes it beyond 40#. The powermatic which will live forever...it just isn't available in Canada...if it was it would need to shred 70# to be at the same price/carton. I'm kind of anxious to see just how far this paper shredder will go and what the final economics of it will be...but on the other hand, I'd rather smoke much less so I hope I can't update you on the 22# milestone for at least a year.
I own a Powermatic but I haven't used it since I built my flake maker for cheap. No maintenance. It works very fast and I don't have to destem the leaf first, I just crumble the leaf from around the stem and toss. I doubt I go back.

 

pottsS

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I own a Powermatic but I haven't used it since I built my flake maker for cheap. No maintenance. It works very fast and I don't have to destem the leaf first, I just crumble the leaf from around the stem and toss. I doubt I go back.

Its thanks to that post that I finally decided I could lay the 1mm shred myth to rest. I tried that method and I was impressed. The flakes work fine in my injector, the cigarettes smoke just fine, using the hardware cloth does not make much dust, but I wasn't very fast at it and it was still labor intensive. I was pretty skeptical of the hardware cloth before I tried it, but I'm glad I did. I learned a lot from that, and it didn't cost me a dime to try, it's the best ideal I've seen. My old shredder would cut the stems into thin slices that didn't often bother (I do always try to pick stems out before I shred). The paper cutter cuts them into little bricks, or alternatively strips them and the stem comes out in the tobacco like a piece of wire, they are easy to pick out...but I had a little brick one in a cigarette this morning that shut me down (I had to knock it off and re light)
 

Knucklehead

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Its thanks to that post that I finally decided I could lay the 1mm shred myth to rest. I tried that method and I was impressed. The flakes work fine in my injector, the cigarettes smoke just fine, using the hardware cloth does not make much dust, but I wasn't very fast at it and it was still labor intensive. I was pretty skeptical of the hardware cloth before I tried it, but I'm glad I did. I learned a lot from that, and it didn't cost me a dime to try, it's the best ideal I've seen. My old shredder would cut the stems into thin slices that didn't often bother (I do always try to pick stems out before I shred). The paper cutter cuts them into little bricks, or alternatively strips them and the stem comes out in the tobacco like a piece of wire, they are easy to pick out...but I had a little brick one in a cigarette this morning that shut me down (I had to knock it off and re light)
I struggle if the leaf is in case. The drier the leaf, the faster it goes. Crumble rather than crush and still very little powder or fines. I spend less time maintaining the leaf itself, also. Once the leaf has aged properly so that it tastes good, I just let it go and forget about it. No need to occasionally spritz the leaf to maintain moisture for aging, just let it dry out. The drier the better. Previously, I had to plan days ahead and start bringing the leaf into case for shredding. Too dry and the shredder would turn the leaf to dust, too moist and the cutters would gum up. It was very fiddly and I kept having to check the moisture each day until it was just right for shredding over a period of days. Five varieties, and they all absorbed moisture differently and at different rates. Now, I just protect the leaf in bags by storing in a cardboard box to avoid accidentally crushing the dry leaf to powder. Now, I can go make flakes with zero prep beforehand. When you take all that into account, huge time savings overall.
 
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pottsS

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I struggle if the leaf is in case. The drier the leaf, the faster it goes. Crumble rather than crush and still very little powder or fines. I spend less time maintaining the leaf itself, also. Once the leaf has aged properly so that it tastes good, I just let it go and forget about it. No need to occasionally spritz the leaf to maintain moisture for aging, just let it dry out. The drier the better. Previously, I had to plan days ahead and start bringing the leaf into case for shredding. Too dry and the shredder would turn the leaf to dust, too moist and the cutters would gum up. It was very fiddly and I kept having to check the moisture each day until it was just right for shredding over a period of days. Five varieties, and they all absorbed moisture differently and at different rates. Now, I just protect the leaf in bags by storing in a cardboard box to avoid accidentally crushing the dry leaf to powder. Now, I can go make flakes with zero prep beforehand. When you take all that into account, huge time savings overall.
I think speed (impact) and dryness are key factors that influence powdering. With (my very good expensive drill) it was still difficult to maintain sufficient torque and not give too much speed, if I got impatient I would see a lot more powder. The shredder just chugs along at 6.5 ft/min (by my calculations...the cutter turns at somewhere between 20&30 rpm). So far I have seen very little flour...but along the same line I think it is why flour is almost non existent when you rub over a mesh. I'd kind of like to try a mill along the lines of a burr mill/grist mill except at a low speed...something to do the rubbing for you, take the stems out to perimeters and drop the flakes when the reach size. But I think I'll live longer if I just quit smoking instead!
 

pottsS

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I just thought I'd post an update, really my big doubt about using a paper shredder was "how long will this last?" I've shredded over 20# now and nothing has really changed. Even changes I thought I might make to my initial modifications I haven't, because it does so well the way it is. The other doubt I had about using a paper shredder for tobacco was cleaning, but the rakes are really good and still all like new, I haven't needed to clean it, I guess because I case it after I shred it and I've only put dry leaves through it. I thought I might want to make it easier to reverse...right now I would need to switch leads on the DC power source, but I have never had any need to reverse it. If it died tomorrow I'd look to replace it with the exact same model so I could use the modifications I have made, but if I was starting from scratch I think that now I would be confident enough to spend a few more dollars and "size up" to a paper shredder with a 30 minute run time. I have used a temperature probe on the motor, and even after 15 minutes it is still running pretty cool (I don't really work the motor hard to do a pound in 15 minutes) but I have never pushed much beyond to find the point when the thermal protection on the motor will kick in. When it dies I'll look at the economics again, but right now I feel like my paper shredder tobacco shredder has paid off!
 

pottsS

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I just thought I'd post an update, really my big doubt about using a paper shredder was "how long will this last?" I've shredded over 20# now and nothing has really changed. Even changes I thought I might make to my initial modifications I haven't, because it does so well the way it is. The other doubt I had about using a paper shredder for tobacco was cleaning, but the rakes are really good and still all like new, I haven't needed to clean it, I guess because I case it after I shred it and I've only put dry leaves through it. I thought I might want to make it easier to reverse...right now I would need to switch leads on the DC power source, but I have never had any need to reverse it. If it died tomorrow I'd look to replace it with the exact same model so I could use the modifications I have made, but if I was starting from scratch I think that now I would be confident enough to spend a few more dollars and "size up" to a paper shredder with a 30 minute run time. I have used a temperature probe on the motor, and even after 15 minutes it is still running pretty cool (I don't really work the motor hard to do a pound in 15 minutes) but I have never pushed much beyond to find the point when the thermal protection on the motor will kick in. When it dies I'll look at the economics again, but right now I feel like my paper shredder tobacco shredder has paid off!
OK, I just finished 33# today, I have gotten a little bolder, I run it 20 minutes on and I feed it just as fast as I can. I have never plugged it, I have never needed to reverse it, it still seems to shred like it did at day one. Today I weighed 2.4# after a 20 minute run, I'll see if I can add some pictures of the cutter top and bottom. I worried a lot about cleaning, but if I can post the pictures you will see that after 33# it is still pretty clean up top(cutters) and down below (rakes)DSCF9267.JPGDSCF9269.JPGDSCF9271.JPG
 

Huffen'Snuff

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It is very simple, the difficult part of making one would be the wheel the blades go on. They've milled it from 5/16 aluminum, obviously made in a well tooled shop. I have thought about making one, using a little longer blades so I can have a bigger feeder tube, but I'm at a loss how I would make the wheel. There are a few rotary vegetable slicers on the market...some would be worth looking at for ideals, and some might even work well to cut tobacco even with no modification...but I do like the fact that I can use inexpensive readily available blades!
If you made a wheel longer blades wouldn't be necessary becouse you could always stagger multiple blades for a wider cut.
Hello everybody. I'm a pipe smoker from Italy and I have decided to try ordering some virginia, dark air tobacco and Perique from the shop. I would Like to know if the tobacco is already aged or of It would be better to kiln the leaf for some weeks before smoking. Thank you!
I am smoking the Balkan, (from WLT) that I just shredded and blended yesterday, it's as good as the stuff a tobacconist sells from a shop, it doesn't feel the least bit inferior, the only thing that needs improved is how the guy shredded it. (The shredder guy being myself)
 

pottsS

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If you made a wheel longer blades wouldn't be necessary becouse you could always stagger multiple blades for a wider cut.

I am smoking the Balkan, (from WLT) that I just shredded and blended yesterday, it's as good as the stuff a tobacconist sells from a shop, it doesn't feel the least bit inferior, the only thing that needs improved is how the guy shredded it. (The shredder guy being myself)
I just opened up my PM3 injector to clean it. I decided to do that every 10,000 after I really filled it up solid with fines when I was using my original shredder. When I opened it up today it was a waste of time, nothing to clean! I really like my paper shredder/ tobacco shredder...the cut it makes gives me more cigs(it doesn't tamp as tight) and less fines than when I was shredding with my original shredder...even tho with the original shredder I could make long thin ribbons that seem to be what people want and my paper shredder cuts shreds 2mmx12mm. I can shred a kg in 20 minutes...which is as long as I run it continuosly because I don't want to overheat the motor. I just shred virginia tobbaco to get a more canadian cigarette, I've been happy with everything I've got from WLT.
 
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