Trials and tribulations of my first attempt

[Bex]

With so few leaves in the chamber it will be hard to keep the rh up. During yellowing too much Rh should not be a problem. But leaf wilting I think is critical to lower to 55 and hold.
barns never added rh only removed. Nowadays I have no clue.
I have to add rh due to my heat exchanger removes it very quickly.

Yes, I'm sure that trying this out with only 14 leaves was not terribly realistic. Although I thought that perhaps, as my freezer is sitting in a barn (actually, it's in a hay shed) that perhaps some of the 1800's technique might rub off?? I think for my next run, I understand the process better. Presumably with a freezer full of leaves, the rh will be sufficent for the yellowing stage, and would keep the temps more stable, as DGbama says. I wanted to try this as a trial run, so that I didn't screw up when doing this with a freezer full of leaves, and ruining all. Even though my result is not very good, I learned a ton during this, and will be alot more confident with it when I do this for real....I may even move the chair that I put in front of the freezer away from it, as it's possible I won't be sitting out there for hours, staring at a thermometer. Possible??

 

[Brown Thumb]

104 is the magic temp where green is set in the leaf lamina, some green in the stems/veins is OK, as it will fade. Humidity should be falling, before going up in temp too, leaf too moist in the higher wilting temps will turn brown (moisture is being cooked out of the leaf).

From what I have read the leaf will keep yellowing up to 118.
I go into wilting with some pretty green leaf and will hold if I have to finish yellowing, before going into leaf drying.
I will post it when I get to a real puter.

 

[DGBAMA]

Yes, I'm sure that trying this out with only 14 leaves was not terribly realistic. Although I thought that perhaps, as my freezer is sitting in a barn (actually, it's in a hay shed) that perhaps some of the 1800's technique might rub off?? I think for my next run, I understand the process better. Presumably with a freezer full of leaves, the rh will be sufficent for the yellowing stage, and would keep the temps more stable, as DGbama says. I wanted to try this as a trial run, so that I didn't screw up when doing this with a freezer full of leaves, and ruining all. Even though my result is not very good, I learned a ton during this, and will be alot more confident with it when I do this for real....I may even move the chair that I put in front of the freezer away from it, as it's possible I won't be sitting out there for hours, staring at a thermometer. Possible??

You just said a mouthful. You Will get this right. Developing an understanding of the Process, and how the leaf reacts is FAR more important than following any schedule.

 

[Bex]

While you fellas are cooking breakfast and doing the laundry, I am out in my shed doing 'manly' things. I have revised my rack system - not quite as nice as Dgbama's, but it has potential. Each slat running across has 13 pins on it, with the capacity of 3 leaves on each. With 6 racks, that is the potential of 200+ leaves per run. I am aiming high:


The slats are not nailed down. I see from the photo that some of the slats are not running 'alternatively' with each other, but that can be fixed by switching them around.
My 'weather station' awaits the arrival of the hygrometer:


I have also put up a small shelf to hold a lamp, so that I'll be able to see everything at night. The more I think of this, the more I think that (aside from leaves that really weren't ready for curing), the humidity factor was my downfall in this first run. The hygrometer will solve that; I've also had practice with the fiddly thermostat, and have decided (perhaps mistakenly) that it is better to be in the low range of temps for, say, yellowing, and do it over 72 hours, rather than hope for 48 hours in this phase. So, I'll err on the low side of temp settings on the thermostat, keeping in mind that it takes the crockpot time to catch up to the temp I want (although now that it will be set on high, I don't have to be quite as patient.....)

 

[BarG]

Yes, I'm sure that trying this out with only 14 leaves was not terribly realistic. Although I thought that perhaps, as my freezer is sitting in a barn (actually, it's in a hay shed) that perhaps some of the 1800's technique might rub off?? I think for my next run, I understand the process better. Presumably with a freezer full of leaves, the rh will be sufficent for the yellowing stage, and would keep the temps more stable, as DGbama says. I wanted to try this as a trial run, so that I didn't screw up when doing this with a freezer full of leaves, and ruining all. Even though my result is not very good, I learned a ton during this, and will be alot more confident with it when I do this for real....I may even move the chair that I put in front of the freezer away from it, as it's possible I won't be sitting out there for hours, staring at a thermometer. Possible??

I still have a problem with the terminology. When I use a kiln it is for cured leaf. I am not familiar with yellowing green leaf in a kiln.You can yellow green leaf easily just by piling in normal temps, or hanging for air dry. Also don't confuse kilning with flue curing, which is what it sounds like you are attempting. Good luck regardless.

 

[BarG]

While you fellas are cooking breakfast and doing the laundry, I am out in my shed doing 'manly' things. I have revised my rack system - not quite as nice as Dgbama's, but it has potential. Each slat running across has 13 pins on it, with the capacity of 3 leaves on each. With 6 racks, that is the potential of 200+ leaves per run. I am aiming high:
View attachment 12876

The slats are not nailed down. I see from the photo that some of the slats are not running 'alternatively' with each other, but that can be fixed by switching them around.
My 'weather station' awaits the arrival of the hygrometer:
View attachment 12877

I have also put up a small shelf to hold a lamp, so that I'll be able to see everything at night. The more I think of this, the more I think that (aside from leaves that really weren't ready for curing), the humidity factor was my downfall in this first run. The hygrometer will solve that; I've also had practice with the fiddly thermostat, and have decided (perhaps mistakenly) that it is better to be in the low range of temps for, say, yellowing, and do it over 72 hours, rather than hope for 48 hours in this phase. So, I'll err on the low side of temp settings on the thermostat, keeping in mind that it takes the crockpot time to catch up to the temp I want (although now that it will be set on high, I don't have to be quite as patient.....)

You may want to put a camera in there with an sd card you can change out every few hours.

 

[Bex]

Sadly, in Ireland, it's pretty impossible to try to pile cure leaves - it is so humid here that they just turn to mush, even with turning them continually - tried this, and figured it wasn't for me. From what I understand, using a 'kiln' is for faster ageing of already color cured tobacco. A 'flue cure chamber' is for the entire process - from green leaf to a final product - all within a shorter period of time (cool). While the containers themselves are pretty much the same, it's the temperatures that you are using within the enclosure that is different - 120F for kilning, while in flue curing, you are going from 95F for a certain amount of time, gradually bumping it up to 165F as the leaves color cure, wilt, dry, etc.
For my environment, if I can get flue curing down (and I'm sure I will) it's probably the only realistic way of processing leaves here - the weather is too damp for hanging, not enough sun, etc., so must be done with some kind of additional 'assistance' to override the natural conditions. And as my old freezer gave up the ghost just at the time my leaves were starting to grow, ah, well, I figured that this was a message from beyond, giving me the solution to my curing problem!!
All of the above is contingent on understanding that I am a newb here, and may not have a clue of what I'm talking about.....

 

[deluxestogie]

newb speaks the truth.

Bob

 

[Bex]

Newb now has a mystery. First, here is a photo of a shredded leaf from what I have cured I had to shine a flashlight on it, as my phone kept making it look way too dark:


I had it hanging in the kitchen for 3 days or so, and the color has improved considerably. Looks nice, right??? Now, here is my mystery - I rolled a cig with it, but it won't stay lit. I figured maybe it is far more humid in my house than I thought? Perhaps. Of course, now I was desperate to try it - I threw it into the microwave (as an aside, I do not recommend doing this. I have done this with purchased leaf, and, at least for me, I find that it totally removes the taste from it - maybe just me). First I had it in the microwave for 30 seconds - rolled it again. Nope, won't light. I put it back in the micro for a full minute. It lit for one puff and then went out. I threw it into the tray in disgust. However, one thing I will say is that, when I had tried to 'cure' leaves last year, putting them in the microwave caused a lot of 'crackling' in the microwave, and, when I opened the door, the stink of ammonia almost knocked me into the wall. I didn't have any of this with this recent cure, so that is an improvement. In any event, I'm assuming that the tobacco is just too damp at the moment, although I would have thought that 90 seconds of microwaving would have alleviated that. Of course, if it had lit, I'm assuming the microwave would have altered whatever taste it might have had. But, for whatever it's worth, I'm 'showing off' the rather nice color of the leaf....

 

[squeezyjohn]

It's tricky in a colder and wetter climate Bex ... also the short season means we have to grow right up to the end of the season with little or no heat left in the summer for curing. Creating a method to flue cure is a sure fire way to beat the mould!

I'm trying for air-cured tobacco myself - and it's becoming clear that the only way to get a useable crop my way is with the shortest season varieties - easiest curing varieties - a bit of luck with the weather - regular checking - and a whole host of techniques to rescue a not fully cured crop before mould takes hold!

I think it might be infinitely easier to create a flue-curing chamber than to perfect the techniques I am attempting! All the very best with your endeavour!

 

[Jitterbugdude]

What kind of fertilizer did you use? and how much? You have the classic sign of way too much chloride in your leaf.

 

[DGBAMA]

A finer cut should burn better, unless too most. Dry feeling but not crumbly.

Water or fertilizer with chlorine can grow poor burning leaf.

My trick to drying in microwave...... Don't try to cook it dry, just get the leaf warm then spread out on a pan to cool. When taken out of the micro, it often feels more damp than when I put it in. The cooling removes a lot of moisture.

 

[Bex]

Hmmm...no chloride that I know of - actually, no fertilizer at all - it's being grown on 'virgin' soil, where only grass has grown before. I water with rainwater (I don't have mains water anyway), so that shouldn't be a problem. Actually, I think I overdid it on this 'bringing it up to case' business. As I was writing this, I figured let me try the cigarette that I rolled again - perhaps it had dried out with the one or two puffs that I originally took from it. I just lit it....and I am smoking it....and, IT'S NOT BAD. A little mild, but a nice taste. There is true potential here. I don't know how to describe my response here other than I AM PSYCHED. This is really not bad at all - it's 'organic', I grew it, I cured it, I'm smoking it. Geesh.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bex]

It's tricky in a colder and wetter climate Bex ... also the short season means we have to grow right up to the end of the season with little or no heat left in the summer for curing. Creating a method to flue cure is a sure fire way to beat the mould!

I'm trying for air-cured tobacco myself - and it's becoming clear that the only way to get a useable crop my way is with the shortest season varieties - easiest curing varieties - a bit of luck with the weather - regular checking - and a whole host of techniques to rescue a not fully cured crop before mould takes hold!

I think it might be infinitely easier to create a flue-curing chamber than to perfect the techniques I am attempting! All the very best with your endeavour!

I've noticed you're in the UK, and have been picking up on some of your posts, as our climate would be somewhat the same. I don't know what your growing conditions are - a allotment, no?? I find that my polytunnel is a big boon to my effort. I have about 20 plants just growing outside - which may do well, as I don't get frost here often, if at all. But I have noticed that the ones in the polytunnel grow far faster and better than the ones outside. I didn't plant them in the tunnel until 4 August, and it seems that every day I go up to the tunnel, they are bigger than the day before. My problem is going to be the east wind, which smacks right into the front of the tunnel - I have put up a windbreak to the west, which I originally thought would be my biggest problem. Anyway, I'm sure that this thing will hold up until at least the end of October, by which time everything should be close to ready. Last year, a friend of mine had about 10 of my plants in his greenhouse - they continued to grow until the end of November when we cut them down. We had a storm here the night before, and the winds actually shifted the greenhouse off of its foundation, so we figured it was best to take them down, rather than lose them altogether. You are very brave, trying to air cure. I did that my first year, hanging the plants in my turf shed. The shed has holes in the walls for drying turf, and I thought this would be perfect. The leaves molded almost overnight and all was lost. I am curious as to why you're fighting with the air curing, when flue curing would give you a lot more control over your process??

 

[Bex]

A finer cut should burn better, unless too most. Dry feeling but not crumbly.

Water or fertilizer with chlorine can grow poor burning leaf.

My trick to drying in microwave...... Don't try to cook it dry, just get the leaf warm then spread out on a pan to cool. When taken out of the micro, it often feels more damp than when I put it in. The cooling removes a lot of moisture.

Ah, thanks for the microwave hint. And yes, my shredding stinks. I have an old Teck 1 machine that I bought off the internet - at the moment, I can't get the wheel off of it - it's probably stuck on with age. Someone suggested using my flywheel puller to get it off, which one of these days I'll try. It makes 'tweaking' it difficult, but I really like doing this on a 100 year old machine, even if the shred is nowhere near as fine as I would like....

Anyway, I'm kinda rambling here. I am really psyched at my first cig, and want to thank all of you who have taken the time to respond to my queries and give me assistance.
And I can't end this post without a special thank you to Deluxestogie, whose can cozy thread I found by mistake, really, when searching the internet, and whose info has opened a whole new 'world' for me. Ta dah!!!

 

[deluxestogie]

Thanks for the kind words. And congratulations on your first entirely home-grown cigarette. Leaf color looks good. Leaves from higher on the stalk will have more body.

Bob

 

[DGBAMA]

Congrats on the first smoke! I remember the feeling of accomplishment well.........it was just last year for me, this is my second grow. As Bob said, flavor becomes more robust in later harvesting/higher leaves. The first ones near the ground are on the weak side for me too. I save them, but will be mixing them in with the upper leaves for more flavor. Home Flue Curing has made huge strides here in the last two seasons, we are all still learning; you are in on the ground floor. The nice thing is that even a batch that doesn't cure "bright" still results in some good smokable tobacco without worry of mold or waiting many months for it to age naturally.

Rant on, and keep sharing your experiences when you learn something; you may unintentionally teach us something too.

 

[cigarchris]

Yes, congratulations Bex! I remember last year being at the stage you're at currently. Though I don't consider my process perfected yet, I have flue-cured leaf that I can shred, roll and smoke, and that is a good feeling.

 

[Bex]

Yes, my one 'successful' cigarette was truly a Eureka moment....I have ordered a hygrometer, and am waiting for this, in order to do my next trial run. I think that measuring humidity is as important as the temperature - as I had no way of doing this on my first run, I was only really 'lucky' enough to have one leaf that sat in the proper position to have the correct heat/humidity during the entire process. I wish the darn thing would hurry up (coming from China, naturally), as I am chafing at the bit to give this another try.

 

[squeezyjohn]

I've noticed you're in the UK, and have been picking up on some of your posts, as our climate would be somewhat the same. I don't know what your growing conditions are - a allotment, no?? I find that my polytunnel is a big boon to my effort. I have about 20 plants just growing outside - which may do well, as I don't get frost here often, if at all. But I have noticed that the ones in the polytunnel grow far faster and better than the ones outside. I didn't plant them in the tunnel until 4 August, and it seems that every day I go up to the tunnel, they are bigger than the day before. My problem is going to be the east wind, which smacks right into the front of the tunnel - I have put up a windbreak to the west, which I originally thought would be my biggest problem. Anyway, I'm sure that this thing will hold up until at least the end of October, by which time everything should be close to ready. Last year, a friend of mine had about 10 of my plants in his greenhouse - they continued to grow until the end of November when we cut them down. We had a storm here the night before, and the winds actually shifted the greenhouse off of its foundation, so we figured it was best to take them down, rather than lose them altogether. You are very brave, trying to air cure. I did that my first year, hanging the plants in my turf shed. The shed has holes in the walls for drying turf, and I thought this would be perfect. The leaves molded almost overnight and all was lost. I am curious as to why you're fighting with the air curing, when flue curing would give you a lot more control over your process??

I air cure because I want to get air cured tobacco as the end result Also there's a streak in me if someone says something is nearly impossible that REALLY wants to try and do it! And with tobacco I'm now getting great results.

Yes - I reckon that Donegal would have a somewhat similar climate - although you will be slightly colder and wetter out towards the Atlantic - but if you're so near the coast that you have very little in the way of frosts then it's a fair exchange!

Yes - warm weather plants always do better in a polytunnel, but you have to water and nanny them quite a lot to get them to thrive. I've grown greenhouse tobacco before and although it looks good - it was very weak in nicotine and ripened slowly (I presume because it got less UV light through the glass) ... with all mine outdoors it simply grows once it gets it's roots established and needs no real looking after ... I've never watered my tobacco outdoors because it rains so much here!

I keep an eye on the weather - and if it's warm enough I plant out at the end of May/ beginning of June - this gives me enough time to get most varieties to begin harvesting in August and all finished by the beginning of September. This gives me a little bit of warm weather in which to get the air-curing going before it gets really badly cold and wet in October. Although I normally have to rescue some of it by bringing in to the house!

A wind-break is a good thing though - tobacco doesn't like the wind at all.