Buy Tobacco Leaf Online | Whole Leaf Tobacco

AmaxB ground prep an Grow 2013

Status
Not open for further replies.

DonH

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
1,609
Points
0
Location
Massachusetts
what about good ol 7-dust? we used it in vegetable garden for years, just not less than a week before harvest. Would it be ok for tobacco in the same usage?
According to Wikipedia it's toxic to humans and is classified as a likely carcinogen by the EPA. The EU classifies it as a category 3 carcinogen, harmful and dangerous to the environment.

The problem for tobacco is that it's half life is 1500 days. So half of it breaks down in five years. There are other pesticides that break down much quicker and have a half life of two months. Forget which ones. So there will still be lots of Sevin (Carbaryl) in the tobacco when you smoke it, but the ones that break down in weeks or months will be mostly gone by the time you smoke it.
 

DonH

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
1,609
Points
0
Location
Massachusetts
Here's some info on Acephate, the chemical in Orthene from Beyond Pesticides:

Acephate

Beyond Pesticides Rating: Toxic


This systemic, broad-spectrum organophosphate insecticide, known by the trade-name Orthene[SUP]TM[/SUP], is produced by the Chevron Chemical Co. It is widely used in agriculture, seed production, in greenhouses, on turf and on commercially grown ornamentals, sometimes in combination with other pesticides. EPA has not produced a Reregistration Eligibility Document for acephate, but they required acephate product labels to contain the signal work CAUTION because of its toxicity category III rating (EXTOXNET 2001). They have also imposed an interim worker reentry period of 24 hours for commercial use, and protective clothing requirements.



Acute Toxicity
Although acephate is only moderately acutely toxic, with an oral rat LD50 (lethal dose needed to kill 50% of the test population) of 500 to 1000 mg/kg, the state of California reported 39 incidents of acephate poisoning between 1982 and 1986, most (25/39) involved applicators who were exposed to the concentrated material. In common with other organophosphates, acephate inhibits acetylcholine esterase (AchE), an essential nervous system enzyme, causing characteristic symptoms such as headaches, fatigue, stomach cramps, nausea, and in extreme cases, respiratory depression.



Interestingly, technical acephate is more acutely toxic than the purified form, because technical acephate contains as much as 30% of a more toxic breakdown product, methamidophos, another organophosphate pesticide known as Monitor[SUP]TM[/SUP]. Another impurity, methylthioacetate (MTA), can be found in small amounts in acephate formulations, and further testing is being required to address its significance. One acute dermal toxicity study in rabbits found that MTA could cause blindness when applied at concentrations between 1500 and 3000 mg/kg.


EPA published a Registration Standard on acephate in September, 1987, which reviewed the existing database and data gaps needing to be filled. According to the Agency, acephate is quickly cleared, does not bioaccumulate, and is excreted mostly as the unchanged compound, although a small amount of methamidophos (also quickly excreted) is formed by intestinal microbes in the rat.
[h=2]Chronic Toxicity[/h] Chronic toxicity effects were all related to AchE inhibition. A single, insensitive, neurotoxicity test found no delayed neurotoxicity. Acephate has not been found to cause birth defects in rats and rabbits. However, in a reproductive effects test, a “non-observable-effects-level (NOEL)” was never established, and low pregnancy rates, high loss of litters and decreased numbers of live fetuses were observed in every treatment group, 50 ppm (parts per million) and higher.



EPA has classified acephate as a Category C or possible human carcinogen. Oncogenicity test results found an increased incidence of adrenal medullary tumors and pituitary tumors in male rats when compared with experimental controls. In female mice, an increased incidence of liver tumors and liver hyperplastic nodules, thought to be precursors to tumors, was seen at the highest doses tested. Acephate is mutagenic in shor-term assays, but not in tests conducted in vivo, on live animals.



Environmental Effects
Although acephate dissipates rapidly from aerobic soil with half-lives of three to six days, it is, according to EPA,” mobile in most soils [therefore] the potential for groundwater contamination exists …[however]…most of the applied acephate and the breakdown product methamidophos degrade to immobile compounds within 20 days…[and therefore]…the probability of contamination is limited.” The USDA reviewed studies conducted by Chevron in the early 1970’s and reported in a review, “Orthene[SUP]TM[/SUP] has a longer half-life on foliar surfaces than in soil or water…in studies using lettuce, broccoli and cotton leaves, only an average of 5% of the applied Orthene[SUP]TM[/SUP] could be washed off leaves three, seven and fourteen days after treatment at two lbs/acre.”



Ecological Effects
Acephate, and especially methamidophos, are highly toxic to bees, and moderately toxic to birds. EPA stated, “studies indicate that acephate treatments may result in local population reductions in some avian species as well as a high incidence of sublethal AchE inhibition…,” although EPA did not feel that long-lasting harm to bird populations would occur.

And from the National Pesticides Information Center

Acephate ingestion in rats caused depression, decreased food consumption, lethargy, diarrhea, excess salivation, urinary incontinence, tremors, ataxia, and collapse. Signs in survivors resolved within eight days of administration.



Acephate ingestion in beagle dogs resulted in muscular tremors, diarrhea, emesis, dyspnea, ataxia, clonic convulsions and bloody diarrhea until six hours after acephate administration.



Dermal exposure to acephate on rabbits caused tremors, diarrhea and dermal redness and inflammation of the treated skin.



Acephate inhalation in rats caused excess salivation, tremors, ataxia and lethargy. Signs resolved within four days of administration.



Signs of toxicity noted in birds were incoordination, depression, shortness of breath, feather puffing, dropped wings, falling rigidly with outspread wings, lying down, tremors, and convulsions. Signs and death have been observed as soon as 30 minutes and five hours, respectively, after acute ingestion.



Signs of Toxicity - Humans


Symptoms appear rapidly if the organophosphates are inhaled, somewhat slower if ingested, and more delayed following dermal exposure. Symptoms from organophosphates can become apparent within minutes to hours after exposure, depending on the exposure route.



Symptoms include headache,nausea, dizziness and confusion.



Incident reports to the EPA about exposure to acephate-containing pesticides were most frequently associated with gastrointestinal, neurological, respiratory, or dermal symptoms

such as nausea, diarrhea, abdominal cramps, tremors, tachycardia, sweating, disorientation, coughing, wheezing, congestion, and pneumonia. Skin irritation and reactions such as swelling, hives, redness, and rashes have also been reported.



Overexcitation of central nervous system from organophosphates may result in moodiness or agitation, confusion, lethargy, weakness, convulsions, incoordination, memory loss, cyanosis or coma.



When the muscarinic receptors are over-excited in the parasympathetic nervous system, cholinergic signs and symptoms including abdominal cramps and diarrhea, hyper-

secretion, urination, tightening of the bronchi, decreased or increased heart rate, and miosis may occur.


Severe exposures to acephate can cause respiratory paralysis and death.



Children can experience different symptoms than adults if exposed to organophosphates, including seizures, lethargy, and
coma, flaccid muscle weakness, miosis and excessive salivation.

Acephate has a much shorter half life as far as I could find. Days to weeks in soil depending on the pH of the soil. It is also water soluble and can wash off easily, but I don't know if that applies to the commercial product, Orthene.
 

workhorse_01

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
1,959
Points
0
Location
Waycross,Ga.
Yes 7 dust you only had to wait a week, = weaker, the orthene or orthonex is systemic which means it is absorbed in to the plant. It's poison and can and will harm us. I looked for a long time to find a weaker product to kill aphids and not me. When you read the lable look at the stop usage before harvest, with systemic it can be like 30 days as the plant has to work it out of it's system. I use Cyonara and if it rains I have to use it the next day again. Wouldn't you rather use something that can be washed off rather than grown out? Keep the orthenex for the wife's roses It will take care of the black spot on her roses, and save my buddy Amax from getting poisoned.
what about good ol 7-dust? we used it in vegetable garden for years, just not less than a week before harvest. Would it be ok for tobacco in the same usage?
 

DonH

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
1,609
Points
0
Location
Massachusetts
We got that orthenex thing cleared up Amax is safe!
What do you fellas think of Admire?
Admire is imidacloprid which is a neonicotinoid (similar to nicotine). Safer for mammals but can cause damage to other animals if it gets into streams or ponds. It is also thought to be harmful to bees. If it's expensive maybe you could just use tobacco tea.
 

johnlee1933

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2011
Messages
3,970
Points
0
Location
Near Danbury, CT
Admire is imidacloprid which is a neonicotinoid (similar to nicotine). Safer for mammals but can cause damage to other animals if it gets into streams or ponds. It is also thought to be harmful to bees. If it's expensive maybe you could just use tobacco tea.
Yes it is expensive but you apply it once to seedlings at planting at a low concentration. It was on some seedlings that were given to me last year. Those plants had zero aphids. My own plants, in the same plot, were plagued with aphids and required constant attention with a poorer yield.

I treated all my seedlings this year and will report on results.
 

AmaxB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
2,436
Points
0
Location
Inwood West Virginia
Yes it is expensive but you apply it once to seedlings at planting at a low concentration. It was on some seedlings that were given to me last year. Those plants had zero aphids. My own plants, in the same plot, were plagued with aphids and required constant attention with a poorer yield.

I treated all my seedlings this year and will report on results.
This is what I read and was told could be pored at base of plants and work same as seedlings. I pored at base of plants would say will see but.,,,,
Found my first Horn Worm a few hours ago Will be treating this evening (BT). In the Photo I circled some black balls is this Horn Worm POOOO? :confused:
If so I have a few unfound of a bigger size.
7_3_13_horn worm.JPG
.
Did some suckering while looking at my Tobacco... Want to say IMHO I like the looks of the Kutsaga E-2 (it has caught up with the African Red) better than the African Red the leaf is Gorgeous and does not Sucker as badly.
The Kutsaga 110 is much the same but the leaf is a lighter shade of Green.
 

Chicken

redneck grower
Founding Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
4,631
Points
83
Location
FLORIDA
yes thats hornworm poo...

the bigger the poo ball.. the bigger the worm,

i found 4 myself yesterday, and about 7 small ones, i'll be spraying today also,

rain is all around me, i hope it dont get washed away.
 

AmaxB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
2,436
Points
0
Location
Inwood West Virginia
Dang rain been here off an on 4 5 days and supposed to be for the next 4 days off and on.
Ordered 248 Mini Umbrellas going to give each plant one. That'il be a sight :rolleyes:
 

AmaxB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
2,436
Points
0
Location
Inwood West Virginia
Went checked the patch some more found 2 half size and 4 tiny ones, killed 4 or 5 earlier. Those Hornie Worms sure can do some MUNCHING!
Looks like rain I sprayed anyway!
Don't screw with a Hornie Worm!!!!!
Kill Em :p
The Diner is open.....

Case yall don't know that's humor
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top