problems with fermentation
- Thread starter Red Lime
- Start date
The humidity in the bags will definitely be very high. When I put the leaves in, they weren't soaking wet, but they were pretty wet, so I don't have a way to measure right now, but the humidity will be close to 100 percent.
I have now decided to open the zip-lock strip on the bags so that some gas exchange can take place! I hope that was a good decision. Then the temperature in all areas will be a little more balanced. What do you all mean?
I agree with opening the bags. The humidity just needs to be above ~60%RH. Give it another few weeks, then allow it to dry-down and rest for a week or two after that.
Bob
Bob
My tobacco has been fermenting for exactly 2 months now. Today I did a court test. I am actually satisfied with the aroma that comes towards me. However, I did notice a slightly irritating smell of ammonia. Now the question arises, continue to ferment until this ammonia smell is gone or not? I have to say it's not much. But ammonia means that protein compounds are still being breathed out here and they should be gone! What do you recommend me?
Am I missing something here ???
The tobacco leaves never cured properly, dried 'GREEN', NO AMOUNT OF PROCESSING OR FERMENTATION WILL CHANGE THIS.
these leaves are TRASH..
This is a good discussion on proper operation of a fermentation kiln, though.
Terrific - now, grow a new crop, properly CURE the leaves, and finish with your new fermention kiln !
After your 2 months of kilning, bring the leaf to low case, and allow it to rest in sealed bags for a month. Then recheck it. Although you can never undo initial curing errors, resting time often mellows out harshness. The first year of tobacco is always a steep learning curve.
Bob
EDIT:
Bob
EDIT:
But that is exactly what comes in those big bags of cheap "pipe" tobacco—sweepings and trash.
Alpine
Moderator
Kilning does wonders to tobacco. Most of times.
BUT! I had a burley crop, kilned for more than two months (side note: i kiln all my baccy for 3 or 4 weeks, and it’s usually good enough to smoke, even rusticas) that right out of the kiln was… well, from “barely smokable” to “meh” at best. I put it aside in a shoebox in the attic and forgot about it for a couple of years. Once “rediscovered” it was simply delicious. Let your kilned tobacco rest for a couple of weeks, stored in a breathable container at medium-low case (avoid mold!) and then try it again. I’m almost sure the taste will improve.
pier
BUT! I had a burley crop, kilned for more than two months (side note: i kiln all my baccy for 3 or 4 weeks, and it’s usually good enough to smoke, even rusticas) that right out of the kiln was… well, from “barely smokable” to “meh” at best. I put it aside in a shoebox in the attic and forgot about it for a couple of years. Once “rediscovered” it was simply delicious. Let your kilned tobacco rest for a couple of weeks, stored in a breathable container at medium-low case (avoid mold!) and then try it again. I’m almost sure the taste will improve.
pier
Thank you for your feedback! The entire leaves are certainly not garbage. Two thirds are very well cured from green to yellow to brown. About a third did not manage the color change so well, there are some green spots with it. It's difficult for me to always precisely control the humidity. I'm assuming the leaves that haven't hardened as well are causing the ammonia smell. I'll sort them out.
The ammonia smell is normal. It will go away once aired out and rested for a few days after kilning.
Fermentation is an enzymatic reaction that occurs at a temperature dependent rate (~60-135°F), and is not dependent on pressure.
Bob
Bob
Not pressure as in the bale it's the weight of the leaves stacked together.
Tobacconist University | Tobacco College | Curing & Fermentation
https://www.tobacconistuniversity.org/curriculum_tobacco_college_curing3.phpTobacco fermentation is a natural organic process that accounts for the majority of change and distinction in cigar tobaccos1. It is a chemical process that converts organic substances into inorganic chemicals under the influence of moisture and temperature, forming new compounds2. Fermentation or "working" the tobacco is like a natural slow "cooking" process whereby the tobacco heats up under the pressure of its own weight. Carefully controlling the temperature cycles and tobacco humidity allows the tobacco to slowly expel (or sweat out) the ammonia and impurities in the leaves1.
Not "cooking", and not pressure. The cigar "University" people need to spend some time studying physical chemistry and biochemistry.
Bob
Bob
Well just putting it out there and that is how it is done. The chemical reaction to the leaves is a fascinating subject. These principles help in the aging process of tobacco.
The researchers found that "attempts to debunk science-relevant misinformation were, on average, not successful," said Chan, the lead author and a research associate at the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania.
"Therefore, most of the science-relevant misinformation goes uncorrected even when a debunk is presented. People believe in the misinformation as much before as after the debunk. This is quite notable, because corrections in other domains, such as reports about an accident or political event, do reasonably well, as shown by past research. However, this does not occur in the domain of misinformation about science."
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by Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania [20 June 2023]
Is it not the insulating property of a pilon that holds in the heat from the chemical process that makes the fermentation happen? I mean more so than the weight of the pilon?Not pressure as in the bale it's the weight of the leaves stacked together.
Tobacconist University | Tobacco College | Curing & Fermentation
https://www.tobacconistuniversity.org/curriculum_tobacco_college_curing3.php
Tobacco fermentation is a natural organic process that accounts for the majority of change and distinction in cigar tobaccos1. It is a chemical process that converts organic substances into inorganic chemicals under the influence of moisture and temperature, forming new compounds2. Fermentation or "working" the tobacco is like a natural slow "cooking" process whereby the tobacco heats up under the pressure of its own weight. Carefully controlling the temperature cycles and tobacco humidity allows the tobacco to slowly expel (or sweat out) the ammonia and impurities in the leaves1. it is more the insulating property of a pilon of tobacco holding in the heat of the chemical process.
Correct. If you calculate the pressure (pounds per square inch) at the bottom of a pilon, it is negligible. Further, the greatest warmth is trapped within the center (horizontal and vertical) of the pilon, which is where the fermentation is most pronounced. A pilon is the equivalent of a pre-industrial kiln, but requiring hundreds of times more labor.
Bob
It's the natural weight of the bale. Thus the tobacco is rotated.
I'm really upset, I made a fucking mistake. My tobacco has now been erroneously in the fermenter for a week at 140-144 Fahrenheit. Now I'm concerned that the oxidase has been destroyed and can no longer contribute to the tobacco maturing. What do you think?
