Some of new zealands tobacco laws

[OldDinosaurWesH]

Fact is...that there is always some person or group of people that think that they know what is best for other people or groups of people. This is called socialism and it goes all the way back to the cave. I only know what is best for me, and it would the height of arrogance on my part to start telling other people how to live their lives. Or as the old saying goes "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." There are thousands of politicians and bureaucrats around the world whom have forgotten, or never learned, these principles.

Wes H.

 

[deluxestogie]

Tobacco has a nearly half-millennium of taxation, prohibition, and swings to the opposite. Most of the earliest of taxes were patently imposed by governments in dire need of income, and at the expense of outsiders (i.e. British colonials in America). In the US, the first whiskey tax, in the 1790s, was seen as a source of desperately needed government income (there were no other federal taxes!), and was imposed almost entirely upon a politically impotent group of citizens (distillers in western Pennsylvania, way out in the boonies). Their subsequent rebellion (the Whiskey Rebellion) was crushed by the US military (under the command of Alexander Hamilton, then secretary of the Treasury).

Taxes are usually about money, while seeking support and a facade of justification from those with a specific moral or health agenda. When advocates of a particular substance (tobacco, alcohol, etc.) wield enough political power, the moral and health agenda is disregarded.

Bob

 

[skychaser]

Are you asking about cannabis or tobacco?

He probably asked because of the prices you're quoting. "Left handed" tobacco is legal here. You can buy it for what you are paying for tobacco. Especially next month when all the outdoor crops are picked. Everyone was gonna get rich when it got legalized, or so they thought. You should see all the adds on craigslist for grow equipment these days. Over production has sent prices crashing. Totally killed the BC Bud imports too. lol Same thing will happen there. Give it a couple years.

A pack of 20 cigarettes is around $8 here. A few miles away in Idaho they are around $3.50. This state has insane taxes on everything. My tobacco stuffed into Golden Harvest tubes with my $6 Zig Zag roller costs me 20 cents a pack.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I just don't understand why so few grow their own, or acquire whole leaf.

It's a challenge to get pipe tobacco up to the grade I want it, but I smoked a cigarette made with my homegrown yesterday. First I've smoked in a few years, and I honestly don't know if I've had a better cigarette before. It was simply air cured Virginia.

 

[skychaser]

Fact is...that there is always some person or group of people that think that they know what is best for other people or groups of people. This is called socialism and it goes all the way back to the cave. I only know what is best for me, and it would the height of arrogance on my part to start telling other people how to live their lives. Or as the old saying goes "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." There are thousands of politicians and bureaucrats around the world whom have forgotten, or never learned, these principles.

Wes H.

+1000

And an amen to that.

 

[fimbrew]

yeah it seems to be a big deal everyone is trying to get into. Hopefully they will leave tobacco alone with that taking all their attention.

 

[fimbrew]

In NZ and other countries the taxes seems to be more than just money and a market way of forcing out an 'immoral' activity. Here in AZ the recent tobacco taxes were supposed to pay for anti-smoking and childhood education but the funds are being diverted so in our case it was just a money grab. A pack of smokes are only 6-7 dollars here so here is no threat of people quitting and hem losing that money stream.

 

[stic]

I just treated myself to a pack of 'Choice' 25's yesterday, cost me NZ$29...

When I first started smoking, some 37 years ago, a pack of 25's was $1.04

I only buy infrequently now, to stretch out the last of my home grown crop...

Seeds already started for this season...

 

[JennyLeez]

I just don't understand why so few grow their own, or acquire whole leaf.

Because on both accounts China we just dont know.

A year ago I was on one of my rants re tobacco prices down here with the owner of a PC I had fixed. He suggested I grow my own as he had before giving up.
I laughed that off as there was no way I thought that possible. I knew no one that grew tobacco and I had no idea what the plants even looked like. (Hence last year I was jumping up and down with the success of my 9ft trees).
Following day he bought around some home grown he had 'come by' for me to try and that set the ball rolling. My cigarettes had just once again increased in price and I was beginning to realise I could not justify my habit. 1 cigarette was equal to a loaf of bread

I purchased seeds from online in New Zealand, planted them and then spent hours online sourcing info and help. I found this forum in my searching and on this forum were all my answers, especially the grow logs, these along with all the photos posted helped big time. Hence why I have thanked you guys on multiply occasions
I am also extremely grateful to one kiwi who has helped me heaps and continues to do so through messaging. He keeps heading me down the correct path

As far as purchasing whole leaves internationally is concerned, again I had no idea this could be done from within NZ. This knowledge I acquired from, yep you guessed it, reading threads on this forum

So China, ignorance is bliss except in my case ignorance was expensive

In NZ and other countries the taxes seems to be more than just money and a market way of forcing out an 'immoral' activity.

Very correct fimbrew, our Govts in the last 5 years or so have openly stated that tobacco would continue to increase in a bid to force smokers to quit. In their favour though I must admit they have increased quit lines, increased coaches who will visit and help you quit. Also increased availability of free aids as with patches, gum etc. So at least they are not just leaving us high and dry.

Cheers
Jenny

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

When I was in college I did a research paper on the history of accounting. The oldest know accounting records are 5,000 years old and from ancient Simmeria. They were written on clay tablets and are ...wait for it...Property Tax Records!

Wes H.

P.S. I thought George Washington himself led the troops during the Whiskey Rebellion.

Also I would reference my previous post re: "Immoral activities" how dare they tell me what to do. I'm not bothering them, why should they be making demands on me?

 

[deluxestogie]

I thought George Washington himself led the troops during the Whiskey Rebellion.

It is indeed true that President Washington ceremoniously greeted the troops (and the journalists) with great pomp in the staging area of Carlisle, Pennsylvania. But, contrary to all the snippets of history on the Internet, he did not command them as they ultimately crossed the mountains to quell the rebellion.

...on October 11. On the same day, Washington left for Fort Cumberland, Maryland, to review the southern wing of the army. Again the President added his majesty to the proceedings and received the adulation of his troops in return. On October 20, convinced that all was going tolerably well and that the army would meet little or no resistance when it reached its destination, Washington put General "Light Horse Harry" Lee [father of Robert E. Lee] in charge, and headed back to Philadelphia. He also left Hamilton as unofficial civilian head of the entire expedition...

Bob

 

[burge]

I hear what you are saying China but as far as I am concern Bob knocked it on the head when he said"


As it is world wide NZ has a massive drug problem. Especially with marijuana. As with our tobacco plants this also grows prolific and especially on the East Coast of the North Island. Funding and resources would be better spent dealing with this plus help and rehab facilities of which there is a huge lack of.

Smoking is legal and has to be a personal choice. The govt is trying to stop us smoking down here by toughening up the laws re growing and placing huge taxes on us.
There was even talk of making NZ smoke free by the year 2025 but that was never going to happen.
Needless to say by hounding smokers it has just encouraged us to look for alternative solutions and yes breaking laws.

Out of curiosity how much are tailor mades in Canadian. Currently a 25 packet of the cheapest is $35.00 ( Can $30.00c ).
Tobacco 30gm is around $56.00 ( can $48.00c. )
How does that compare with your prices please?

Cheers
Jenny

Jenny a pack of 25 last I checked was about 20 bucks for premium

 

[Wayn3]

Next year here in NZ (January?) 50g will be NZ$100, lasts a week. 5 pounds from WLT, that I got recently costs me $6.60/week for 45 weeks. Really like the double bright leaf. I left Queenstown to grow my own in Tauranga, had the year off work, found WLT & got some, now returning to Qtn soon... But a huge relief that such a habit is now not all about money, making me broke, & can concentrate on other things/needs in life. I'll be getting more from WLT, stockpile...

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

Cigarette prices vary widely here in the U.S. It depends on which state you live in. Here in Washington State where I live, a retail pack of 20 sells for between $8.00 and $9.00 U.S. (Second highest in the U.S.) Across the Border in Oregon, the same pack costs between $5.00 and $6.00. New York City is the highest I've heard of at around $12.00 per pack. In the tobacco production states the prices are the lowest. Due to geographic proximity, New York city has a lot of illegal (untaxed) cigarette traffic coming in from the tobacco producing states.

Wes H.

 

[JennyLeez]

$5.00 per 20, thats $7.48 NZ dollars. Unbelievable.
The cheapest I can purchase a pack of 20 in my town is NZ $24.50
If I had my time again, on top of the list would be NOT to start smoking, dont we all love hindsight

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

Big tobacco can manufacture distribute and market 20 packs of cigarettes (and still make a profit!) for about $1.00 per pack. The rest of that price is all tax. Back in the 1980's I used to be able to buy a carton (10 packs of 20 each) for $5.00.

Hence my earlier tirade about governments and social engineering. My big question is, what is your government doing with all that cash they are bringing in? Probably no good.

I figured that I save myself about $6,000 per year by not buying manufactured cigarettes. Of course I make up for that in the form of labor. (Or is that labour?) But, I get a product that is of my own making, is quality controlled to my own standards, and has no additives.

Wes H.

 

[burge]

I started ryo a while ago simply because it tasted better. As far as taxes Roman Empire Egypt and Persia had organized tax collectors as a profession. Why people aren't into leaf is simply because they are too lazy to buy and shred it. My thoughts anyhow.

 

[OldDinosaurWesH]

I've been rolling my own since the Clinton Administration (late 1990's). I used to be able to buy 5# bags of cigarette tobacco for about $40. The tax man closed that "loophole" and the price of that same 5 # bag went to $400. I started growing my own three years ago. Speaking of...I 'gotta get busy and get a bunch of harvesting done today. The season is disappearing quickly.

Wes H.

 

[stic]

our Govts in the last 5 years or so have openly stated that tobacco would continue to increase in a bid to force smokers to quit. In their favour though I must admit they have increased quit lines, increased coaches who will visit and help you quit. Also increased availability of free aids as with patches, gum etc. So at least they are not just leaving us high and dry.

Cheers
Jenny

Not leaving us High and Dry?

They are singling us smokers out for targeted eradication...

...meanwhile...

Where is the equivalent tough government stance (and attendant draconian taxation) against alcohol due to it causing drink driving accidents and fatalities, workplace accidents and fatalities, alcohol related domestic violence and assault, fetal alcohol syndrome and all the other alcohol related health problems?

During these progressive hikes in tobacco taxation, alcohol has been readily available in all supermarkets, at super low prices...and even spirits are ludicrously cheap, in many cases, cheaper than a pack of 30 ciggies...

I don't drink...

I smoke...

Treat all equally or, leave us the f**k alone!

 

[grannynic]

Does anyone know how long it takes door-to-door to NZ?