Sudden rancid smell after cutting burley

[iamjonjones]

Hello there,

Just today i received another shipment of leaves. i've had some issues with burley, mold and smell before, so immediately after receiving the box i opened it and smelled everything. Took apart the leaves and seperated it all, no weird smell, no large obvious spots with mold.

So i sit down, strip all the stems, put the leaves through my cutter and put the cut tobacco in an open bag. So far so good, i then start on my virginia and after finishing that kg and bagging it, i give both bags a sniff. Suddenly the burley smells horrid, the same as the moldy burley i received before, like a wet cown barn.
So in the span of less than 2 hours the leaves went from smelling completely fine to this penetrating putrid smell. How? Why? Google tells me it could be pockets with fungal/microbial buildup in the leaves suddenly releasing?

In a previous post where i had this smell immediately present on the leaves the conclusion was to leave them out and see if it improved, i left it out for months and nothing did. At this point i dont quite know what to do next, what could cause initially well smelling leaves to so suddenly go off? If every time i order burley this happens, could i replace burley with a different kind of leaf that serves the same purpose?

Thanks in advance to anyone who reads this and or takes the time to respond

 

[jclif43]

Maybe a stretch, but is your cutter clean?

 

[iamjonjones]

Maybe a stretch, but is your cutter clean?

Cutter is brand new not even 1 month old and i cut 4 other bags through it afterwards, none have even a hint of the smell the burley has

 

[Juxtaposer-]

Rancid, mold, barnyard, or is it ammonia? These are all different smells with different causes. Horrid is an emotion. Maybe you just don’t like burley.

 

[iamjonjones]

Rancid, mold, barnyard, or is it ammonia? These are all different smells with different causes. Horrid is an emotion. Maybe you just don’t like burley.

Yeah its rough to explain exact smells over text, i've been going back and forth with uncle GPT for a bit to try and get some clarification, i smelled this smell in a cow barn a few years back and as such tied it to that, it's not that i dont like burley, i really liked the smell as the leaves came in, only after cutting did it start to smell off.

An attempt at clarifying what i smell, according to GPT mold usually smells dry and grabs your throat, it's not really that. It's more of a rich offputting kind of sweet smell, another thing i can maybe tie it too is i smelled something similair years ago and found out it was one of the pumpkins in the dining table bowl that had started rotting, that had that same rotting, sweet in a disgusting way smell. It currently doesnt smell sour or like alcohol (these are things GPT asked as well)

Hope this may clear it up some

 

[deluxestogie]

Try blending the burley and Virginia, and smoking it.

Bob

 

[iamjonjones]

Try blending the burley and Virginia, and smoking it.

Bob

It's now been 100+ hours since i cut the leaves, the leaves are almost completely dry but the smell doesn't dissipate. I tried mixing some burley, virginia and oriental yesterday and initially it smelled fine but after letting it dry overnight today the sweet off smell of the burley is overtaking the smells of the virginia and oriental.

So given that the smell doesnt dissipate with drying and it seems to "take over" other leaves with time when mixed. I don't think this is something im comfortable smoking. And i'll just have to toss yet another kg of burley.

This is sadly the 3rd time in a row i've had this issue with the burley from eurotabak, is there someone who can recommend another europe based whole leaf supplier? Or another type of leaf i can use to create a regular blend?

 

[jclif43]

It's now been 100+ hours since i cut the leaves, the leaves are almost completely dry but the smell doesn't dissipate. I tried mixing some burley, virginia and oriental yesterday and initially it smelled fine but after letting it dry overnight today the sweet off smell of the burley is overtaking the smells of the virginia and oriental.

So given that the smell doesnt dissipate with drying and it seems to "take over" other leaves with time when mixed. I don't think this is something im comfortable smoking. And i'll just have to toss yet another kg of burley.

This is sadly the 3rd time in a row i've had this issue with the burley from eurotabak, is there someone who can recommend another europe based whole leaf supplier? Or another type of leaf i can use to create a regular blend?

Do you have any photos of the uncut burley?

 

[Wombat_smokes]

I've been thinking and looking into this issue out of curiosity.

First, what aromas does one find in a cow barn? The musty/dusty smell of cows, fresh/aged/moldy hay (grass & alfalfa/lucerne), manure, urine soaked bedding, etc...

For me:
Musty - stale/moldy hay, manure, dust
Sweet - fresh alfalfa/lucerne hay
Rancid - stale urine & ammonia

Ammonia can smell of urine (sometimes described as cat pee) or fertilizer (like at the garden store)

Burley often requires extensive aging compared to Virginas & Orientals. White stemmed Burley requires extra time to color cure since the chlorophyll fades before fully cured. This pale coloring fools many into thinking it is finished - there are many posts here of first time burley growers perplexed by the harshness & off smells/flavors of their burley.

Low grade commercial Burley is often sold before the ammonia causing proteins have fully broken down. Tobacco processers/manufacturers will use casings and toppings to both mitigate and hide this fact. If I remember other members' posts correctly, their leaves have looked & smelled good after taking them out of the kiln, but smelled the ammonia after storing in low case for a few weeks or months.

My theory is that the smell is ammonia mixed with whatever casing the tobacco might have been processed with. While you could try to stove/kiln the tobacco to accelerate the off gassing, it would be best to store it in low case and air it out every few weeks. 1 kg of tobacco is a lot to put in the trash. Replace it and let it rest (if it's not too late). Who knows, leaving it alone might reward you in a few months to a year.

 

[DaleB]

1 kg of tobacco is a lot to put in the trash. Replace it and let it rest (if it's not too late). Who knows, leaving it alone might reward you in a few months to a year.

Yes, that. I have had tobacco - both raw leaves and pipe blends - that I though were terrible. Given enough time, nearly all of it has seen the error of its ways and become decent enough to smoke, and some even turned out very nice. It took anywhere from a few months to a couple of years, but I'm beginning to think that unless it's moldy or some commercial blend with too much PG or whatever in it, there's not much that can't be fixed by time.

 

[iamjonjones]

Do you have any photos of the uncut burley?

Most of it i've shredded i have a few very dry leaves still, i've attached some pictures.

I've been thinking and looking into this issue out of curiosity.

Best i can describe it is a sweet smell that makes me slightly nauseous when smelling it, it reminds me of rained over hay combined with rotting pumpkin. its a filling maybe almost humid smell? i dont really smell sourness to it and with how dry everything is all of it has a lot of dust coming off, so that's a bit hard to pinpoint, but the main smell is a sweet smell that smells off instead of nice, since i dont know exactly what it is i can only compare it to the cow barn and rotting pumpkin smells i remember. to clarify as well none of the other leaves have the same or even closely similair smell unless mixed with the burley. i have 2 kinds of oriental and 2 kinds of virginia that i've also shred, but even though the orientals also smell sweet, they smell sweet in a nice aromatic way.
The seller (eurotabak) has stated they dont use any products on their leaves not even humectants ( ive read some sellers use glycol or glycerin to keep it stable)

Yes, that. I have had tobacco - both raw leaves and pipe blends - that I though were terrible. Given enough time, nearly all of it has seen the error of its ways and become decent enough to smoke, and some even turned out very nice. It took anywhere from a few months to a couple of years, but I'm beginning to think that unless it's moldy or some commercial blend with too much PG or whatever in it, there's not much that can't be fixed by time.

i also agree that 1kg is a lot to throw out, but i live in a small appartment building and space is scarce. last time i had this smell on the whole leaves i left it for almost 4 months until my partner asked me to get rid of it because it started smelling up the whole house. the leaves were bone dry and left in an open box, i even tossed it around every now and again, because it was 3kg in total back then and i didnt want it to go to waste, but months later, no improvement and i couldnt very well ask my partner to just put up with it indefinitely, it was also starting to get to me. so given my previous experience with this smell on these leaves, im hesitant to keep it around too long. i haven't thrown it out yet, but even when i mix it the smell seems to "develop" it seems to become worse and also appear on the leaves ive mixed it with

i wish i could send the smell over the internet it's a subjective thing, so hard to translate exactly, but ive asked several other people and they have also described it as foul smelling, even though they also do like the smell of the uncut leaves and other cut leaves. one has described it as smelling like rabbit feed.

 

[Wombat_smokes]

Given that much history of trying to save this tobacco, I'm guessing there's a fungus rotting the leaves. Probably bad storage by the grower or seller (assuming it was of modest quality when finished curing). My deepest sympathies and condolences for the loss.

 

[iamjonjones]

A small update to this situation. The virginia initially smelled fine, both before and after cutting. The website advertises it as 12.5% moisture, it came in dry but pliable. After 2 days the virgina smelled mildly sour, my partner said it smelled like urinal already but i thought it still smelled fine. Just to be sure i took it out of the open bag i was keeping it in and tossed it in an open tub, while drying the sourness became less and once the outside was dry to the point it was crumbly i put it back in the bag. After leaving it in there for 24-48 hours i now gave that bag a sniff and at this point even i felt "dang that smells like ammonia".
Neither the cut burley nor the virginia currently show any signs of moldy webbing or dust, and have distinctly different smells that smell off.
UncleGPT says this may indicate an issue with the sellers storage? The delivery only took 24-48 hours so that was rather quick. And none of my previous orders of virginia have smelled this sour.

To anyone who grows/orders, am i missing a step/doing something wrong here, is this just unlucky or is the seller likely at fault here?

 

[JukkaPekka]

I would forget that shop. Buy some commercial pipe tobacco blends from Germany and if you have opportunity try growing your own tobacco.

 

[iamjonjones]

I would forget that shop. Buy some commercial pipe tobacco blends from Germany and if you have opportunity try growing your own tobacco.

I'm a cigarette smoker, not a pipe smoker. This seller (eurotabak) and tabakbatter are the only sellers i know from germany, are there any other whole leaf suppliers in europe you could recommend?

 

[yesrepeatno]

A small update to this situation. The virginia initially smelled fine, both before and after cutting. The website advertises it as 12.5% moisture, it came in dry but pliable. After 2 days the virgina smelled mildly sour, my partner said it smelled like urinal already but i thought it still smelled fine. Just to be sure i took it out of the open bag i was keeping it in and tossed it in an open tub, while drying the sourness became less and once the outside was dry to the point it was crumbly i put it back in the bag. After leaving it in there for 24-48 hours i now gave that bag a sniff and at this point even i felt "dang that smells like ammonia".
Neither the cut burley nor the virginia currently show any signs of moldy webbing or dust, and have distinctly different smells that smell off.
UncleGPT says this may indicate an issue with the sellers storage? The delivery only took 24-48 hours so that was rather quick. And none of my previous orders of virginia have smelled this sour.

To anyone who grows/orders, am i missing a step/doing something wrong here, is this just unlucky or is the seller likely at fault here?

To handle urea smell in Virginia tobacco, look at Bob's suggestions on my recent thread regarding the same problem: https://forum.wholeleaftobacco.com/threads/how-to-tame-urea-smell-from-va-leaf.13532/

 

[iamjonjones]

To handle urea smell in Virginia tobacco, look at Bob's suggestions on my recent thread regarding the same problem: https://forum.wholeleaftobacco.com/threads/how-to-tame-urea-smell-from-va-leaf.13532/

I read the post but "it was a lateral move at best" doesn't seem like a fix if i'm honest

 

[deluxestogie]

I still don't have a clear understanding of what you are experiencing.

Choices:

• throw it all away
• allow it to age (weeks to months)
• kiln it
• lightly toast it in the oven
• cook it into Cavendish

Bob

 

[iamjonjones]

I still don't have a clear understanding of what you are experiencing.

Choices:

• throw it all away
• allow it to age (weeks to months)
• kiln it
• lightly toast it in the oven
• cook it into Cavendish

Bob

What im experiencing: Burley whole leaf smelled good and as expected, after cutting it smells so bad everyone that smells it describes at disgusting, mainly a sweet smell.
(wet hay, rabbit feed, rotten pumkin)

Virginia smells like ammonia.

Choices:
- I don't own or have space for a kiln
- Last time this smell was present on the burley it didn't go away even after 4 months and it smelled up my whole house, hesitant to try something like that again

- I will attempt toasting some in the oven and come back to that
- how much work is cooking into cavendish and what do i do with it after? I'm looking for a regular cigarette smoke

If all fails i will toss it out, but it'd be a waste so i'd like to prevent that. Hence looking for suggestions here.

 

[deluxestogie]

how much work is cooking into cavendish

Look at our Index of Key Forum Threads, and scroll down to the Cavendish heading. Try it with the burley. Dry it, and try it in a cigarette blend.

Bob