US Nicotiana Germplasm Collection 2013 Nursery

[JessicaNicot]

what product do you use when you spray for budworms ?

i know that we use TRACER to spray the flower heads before we bag them. i have to wait until the next time i go out to the nursery to ask the tobacco foreman what he uses in the big field sprayer.

 

[workhorse_01]

Ok sis, Are we talking about a future for a non-cancer causing tobacco?I've

well we plant experiments at 4 different locations (as well have some other small experiments at the mountain stations that someone else looks over) around the state, each with its own float houses, machinery and staff. scheduling transplanting at all these stations is very hectic because they also work with other researchers and in some cases, other crops. the plants were ready for the clayton nursery at least 3 weeks before we got them in the ground. it also didnt help that there was that late blast of very cold weather and so everyone wanted to wait til after the frost date (april 15) before getting started.

as far as the number of plants, we (my boss) assumes inbred status and plants 5. up until 2 years ago, the germplasm collection had 10-plant plots. tobacco makes so much seed (well most varieties do) and we keep so little on hand in comparison, that we get at least 3x what we need from just 5 plants.

the mutant population comes from seed that was exposed to a chemical that induces mutations. its in the field to shore up seed supplies and establish purelines. this population is used for research because it contains lots of novel genotypic diversity, including gene knockout. using mutations from this population, ncsu was able to generate new varieties of tobacco that no longer convert nicotine to nornicotine (which is the precursor for the worst tobacco specific carcinogens).

 

[skychaser]

I am using the same seed storage methods that you do, which is good to know. The only difference is my freezer is set at -10f.

I am very surprised you grow so few of each type in your grow outs. 10 is a low number and 5 is very low. It's contrary to what I have learned about not creating bottle necks in the gene pool, even with very inbred plants. Also, growing so few plants doesn't allow much room for rouging out plants not true to form. It hardly allows enough to determine what really is true to form if you are not already very familiar with that particular variety. But if it works for you folks then maybe I am growing more plants than is really necessary. Cutting the number down would allow me more varieties per year and make things a lot easier, but I do not want to compromise quality in any way.

Do you germination test your seed? And do you know what is the accepted standard for minimum germination rates? I have never been able to find an official standard for tobacco seed.

Does NC State do germ testing for others? I have had Colorado State and the WSDA do testing for me in recent years. My personal tests got some very different results on several varieties than the tests done by the WSDA this past season. Makes me wonder if they know how to properly test tobacco. It's not something they see often here in this part of the country. And accurate germ tests are very important to me.

 

[BarG]

and for Maks-


the PI#s are the official ID given by the usda for a line and almost everything in GRIN has one. anyone who comes across a PI# can go to GRIN and view any known info/data for that accession. the TI/TC/TW/TH/TM/TR #s are my local inventory numbers and divide the collection into subgroups (and provide an ID for those accessions which do not currently have a PI). i do not believe there was much interest among the tobacco researchers when GRIN was started for the names of accessions (except those in the cultivar collection; the TCs), as there are many TIs for which no name is known (eg, they were found growing beside the road in south america in the 1930s and someone collected seed and sent it back to the US), and there are a lot of instances where the info was not entered or wasnt entered into a readily searchable field.

i know that searching GRIN can be hard. they are moving to a new platform later this year that i hope will solve many of the issues. there are many inaccuracies/omissions/typos in GRIN and one of the things i have spent a lot of time doing is combing thru the records/literature and gleaning information to update GRIN. because im a non-usda newbie and they are moving to a new system, they arent going to waste time training me on how to use the old database. when the new database comes online, i will work very hard to make sure that the most complete and accurate info/data are included, including the accession name if it is known.

I speak for myself when I say A tutorial on how to use [ interpret] your data would make my day.

Is there a link somewhere for beginners.

 

[Fisherman]

Poor Jessica!
She got more questions flying at her than Ole Davy Crockett had mexican cannon balls at the Alamo. heh heh
Hang in there maam please

 

[JessicaNicot]

Are we talking about a future for a non-cancer causing tobacco?

im not sure how much im actually allowed to say about this, but there are new varieties coming to market soon that will be known as "SRC TN 90", "SRC Little Crittenden", etc. the SRC stands for Stable Reduced Converter, as opposed to the TN 90 LC (low converter). it is possible that these lines will be used in the generation of non-carcinogenic chewing tobacco. however, there are changes that occur with the burning process that generate many carinogens (only a few of the worst ones are specific to tobacco) such that you will never have a truely carcinogenic free cigar, cig, or pipe tobacco.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

I think we need to make a distinction here about "carcinogenic free cigar, cig, or pipe tobacco". There is a big difference between commercial tobacco and home grown. Home grown does not have several hundred chemicals sprayed on it. Let's not forget too that the reduction in Alzheimer's Disease from moderate smoking is due to Nornicotine.

If I were to take Broccoli and dip it in a batter conataining 300 different chemicals and serve it to you, would you still think it is healthy?

 

[workhorse_01]

I don't know how that would help the makers of Copenhagen as they double the trouble because they fire cure with smoke from oak and hickory to give that smokey flavor, and we know that by itself causes increased carcinogens.

 

[JessicaNicot]

I am very surprised you grow so few of each type in your grow outs. 10 is a low number and 5 is very low. It's contrary to what I have learned about not creating bottle necks in the gene pool, even with very inbred plants. Also, growing so few plants doesn't allow much room for rouging out plants not true to form. It hardly allows enough to determine what really is true to form if you are not already very familiar with that particular variety. But if it works for you folks then maybe I am growing more plants than is really necessary. Cutting the number down would allow me more varieties per year and make things a lot easier, but I do not want to compromise quality in any way.

Do you germination test your seed? And do you know what is the accepted standard for minimum germination rates? I have never been able to find an official standard for tobacco seed.

i wasnt very excited about moving to 5 plant plots, but thats a decision made above my pay grade. all of you are about to gasp, but we only keep enough seed on hand of each accession to fill a 20-ml scintilation vial, roughly 15 grams. we have SO MANY accessions that when we moved to new vials with better sealing caps, the scintilation vials which come in cardboard flats of 100 were our best option, which is why i also cut back from sending 1000 seeds to about 500. sadly, we keep A LOT more foundation seed on hand(maybe like 150-200 grams), which is more ideal, but again, a decision above my pay grade.

the former curator still does seed cleaning and germination testing for us. he counts out 100 seeds and puts them in a petri dish that has 2 moist pieces of filter paper, and then seals the plate. he puts the plates under a light bank and counts what germinates. i believe this is the best method and i think it is also the method used by the National Center for Genetic Resource Preservation at Ft Collins. for us, anything above 80% is good, but for commercial seed (especially seed that people use in commercial float tray systems), you want the highest possible. our germs fluctuate with time, some going down slowly, some initially starting lower and then going up. i think there are definitely genetic components to seed viability over time. there are some of our seeds at the NCGRP that are still good after 40 yrs, there are others that are toast in 20.

 

[workhorse_01]

It's not tobacco but did you ever read how kamut was brought back from the dead? Look how long it sat dormant.

 

[JessicaNicot]

I think we need to make a distinction here about "carcinogenic free cigar, cig, or pipe tobacco". There is a big difference between commercial tobacco and home grown. Home grown does not have several hundred chemicals sprayed on it. Let's not forget too that the reduction in Alzheimer's Disease from moderate smoking is due to Nornicotine.

nornicotine, especially in air cured burley, is converted to TSNAs (tobacco-specific nitrosamines) which are the WORST tobacco-specific carcinogens. that is why the industry works to cull out the high converter plants (the mutation in currently available materials is unstable and will always revert to converting). a tobacco-specific carcinogen results from compounds that only tobacco plants naturally produce, not chemicals used in production (often also used in other crops). cellulose, present in all plants, is also turned into a carcinogen when it is burned, but it is a drastically less potent carcinogen than TSNAs.

 

[LeftyRighty]

Originally Posted by LeftyRighty
what product do you use when you spray for budworms ?

i know that we use TRACER to spray the flower heads before we bag them. i have to wait until the next time i go out to the nursery to ask the tobacco foreman what he uses in the big field sprayer.

F.Y.I. the active ingredient in TRACER is Spinosad, products of which can be found in most garden centers. pretty much equivalent to Bt.

 

[Fisherman]

I sprayer that thuricide concentrate on regular worms and have only seen one since. The plants are larger and thicker leafed now and havent seen budworm yet and have blooms everywhere. Have aphids tho on a few . It just rained so that helped but hurts bt spraying so will wait . I wanted to spray worms weekly with the bt and didnt as havent seen any and it killed them graveyard dead quicker than a cat can lick its................

 

[BigBonner]

nornicotine, especially in air cured burley, is converted to TSNAs (tobacco-specific nitrosamines) which are the WORST tobacco-specific carcinogens. that is why the industry works to cull out the high converter plants (the mutation in currently available materials is unstable and will always revert to converting). a tobacco-specific carcinogen results from compounds that only tobacco plants naturally produce, not chemicals used in production (often also used in other crops). cellulose, present in all plants, is also turned into a carcinogen when it is burned, but it is a drastically less potent carcinogen than TSNAs.

All big tobacco companies only buys tobacco that is LC ( Low Converter ) and we have to sign contracts stating that we all only grow the LC type of tobacco's .If they test my tobacco and find it to not be from LC seeds they will , or can make me buy my tobacco back and pay them for handling and shipping , along with canceling my contracts .
Now some tobacco may be sold at auction , those buyers don't care how the tobacco was grown or chemicals used on the tobacco .All they want is cheap tobacco .

I would use Orthene if there was enough damage . I also spray my bagged flowers with it but they need re spraying almost weekly .

I do know that when the plants were bred for low converter types that weight per acre was way down .We just don't get the pounds per acre like we did with the old types of tobacco .This has been asked to the University of KY by farmers and the co-op .

 

[skychaser]

I wasn't aware the LC varieties reverted back. Good to know. Does it revert back slowly over time with each successive generation or happen quickly in one or two generations?

I'd sure like to try some of that SRC TN 90 when it comes out. If you need someone to do a test grow out in the upper left corner of the country, I'm your guy. I'll give it the frost resistance test. lol

Speaking of frost, has any research been done on frost resistance? I'm doing my own frost studies every year, like it or not. I have found varieties that can tolerate temps in the upper 20's. Some can take repeated nights below freezing with little to no effect. And I have found others that die if you just show them a pict of snow.

 

[LeftyRighty]

I would use Orthene if there was enough damage . I also spray my bagged flowers with it but they need re spraying almost weekly ..

the active ingredient in Orthene is acephate - great stuff, but will have an adverse effect on the viability of seed. (learned the hard way). I also use acephate regularly, as my area is plagued with multiple nasty critters, and I cannot avoid using the stuff. I do not spray bagged plants, nor the buds of plants from which I want seeds - use Bt, spinsad, thuricide instead.

 

[skychaser]

Man, I am one lucky SOB not having to deal with pests like most of you do. Everything we grow is done 100% organically. You won't find a jug of pesticide on our place. Having to spray takes more of your time and $$ from your pocket. I hate the idea of using any type of chemical here, but I would if I had too. What else can you do?

We do have tomato horn worms show up now and then, but it's rare and they only go for the tomatoes. I see them maybe once every 6-8 years. We do have lots of these guys buzzing the tobacco flowers at night though. http://nwtseeds.com/IMG_1634_copy.jpg Not sure exactly what species of moth they are, but we never have had any problems from them. Anyone know exactly what they are?

 

[deluxestogie]

Jessica has sent the list of varieties for her 2013 grow-out. The count is 250 varieties. If you would like to view the information, I have put it on a server for anyone to download.

It is available in 3 different formats. If you have Microsoft Excel, the .xls version is the handiest to work with. I've created a .pdf version that will display in an Adobe Acrobat reader. Finally, there is a single-page Web version (.mht) that will display in your browser.

• MS Excel version: 2013 Nursery Info.xls [77 kb]
• Acrobat version: 2013 Nursery Info.pdf [417 kb]
• Single Web Page File: 2013 Nursery Info.mht [253 kb]

The .xls and .pdf versions will print out neatly on 13 pages, landscape orientation.

It's really an exciting list, with informative material in the "Notes" column, some including comments on special disease suceptibility or resistance. We are hoping to acquire in the fall seed for each of these varieties that is not already in the FTT seed bank.

Thank you so much, Jessica, for sharing this.

Bob

 

[rainmax]

the active ingredient in Orthene is acephate - great stuff, but will have an adverse effect on the viability of seed. (learned the hard way). I also use acephate regularly, as my area is plagued with multiple nasty critters, and I cannot avoid using the stuff. I do not spray bagged plants, nor the buds of plants from which I want seeds - use Bt, spinsad, thuricide instead.

Last year was my first crop. I didn't use any spray and I hope I won't needed this year. I have only problems with budworms if that this creature is?!:

 

[JessicaNicot]

I wasn't aware the LC varieties reverted back. Good to know. Does it revert back slowly over time with each successive generation or happen quickly in one or two generations?

the LC varieties convert back very quickly. i believe they test the plants every generation. im certainly glad that LC seed gerneration is not my problem. i dont know how many plants they have to grow, then testing samples from every one, and culling all the bad ones and still having enough good plants to achieve your goal, especially when burley isnt known for having a great fecundity in the first place. thats a lot of effort.