Day 5 in the shed:
Bob
Bob
Deluxestogie Grow Log 2026
- Thread starter deluxestogie
- Start date
This Praying Mantis, praying on the leaf of an Ottoman tobacco variety (Izmir-Ozbas), seems to have an independent streak.
Bob
This is my last standing tobacco plant of 2026. Five days ago, when I stalk-cut the Izmir-Ozbas growing in the porch corner bed, I decided to leave this one. It had actually been a near-ground-level sucker from one of the others, but had emerged so early, that I allowed it to grow as a separate stalk. At the time I had cut the others, this one was just beginning to show its first blossom. It stands about 5 feet high.
Because it is so late in a truly abnormal growing season, there are few other blossoms of any sort. Even the weeds have finished blossoming. I decided that this one blossom head might be meaningful to all the critters that depend on blossoms for feeding. Within a day of its first blossom opening, it has been repeatedly visited by bumblebees and at least one hummingbird.
In the greater scheme of things, this is fairly insignificant. But I feel better about having left it standing.
Bob
bbfarmky
Member
How do those seeds become genetically viable assuming they have been bagged since first bloom? I realize folks bag to stop cross-pollination and/or to make seed collection easier but all those blooms are in there with no insect access and very cramped quarters for wind pollination.Below is a photo of what I left behind, after stalk-cutting the Long Red and Dutch (Ohio). If you've ever purchased a bag of extra cheap, commercial shredded tobacco, and wondered what was in it, this is the quality of leaf that is used. It's grade is called, "Flyers and Trash."
I used to save all of the salvageable flyers and trash. It grows so low on the stalk, and has often been subjected to rain after it has already color-cured, that it is mild enough to just crumble into a pipe, right out there in the garden, and light it up. Given that every leaf ultimately requires the same labor of handling, regardless of quality, I am more inclined to just leave it in the dirt.
Below is a bagged seed head to which I have already attached a hanging wire, wrapped snugly above the string tie. About half the enclosed pods are already brown. I then cut the bagged head from the stalk, and carry it indoors.
This bagged seed head is now hung inside my back porch, to dry for a few months.
Bob
I trust you have been doing this a long time and have verified that indeed this is successful but I am having trouble connecting the dots.
No need to trust. It's all repeatedly documented in grow logs and other forum threads. Also, for a precious stretch of time, the individual who operated the USDA ARS-GRIN Nicotiana germplasm bank at UNC, (@JessicaNicot) was an active forum member. Her GRIN grow-out grow log is worth reading.
Specific varieties of Nicotiana tabacum are homozygous. That is to say, there should be no hidden, recessive genetic variants, other than spontaneous mutations. (Spontaneous mutations are minimized in collected seed by not saving seed from atypical plants.)
Nicotiana tabacum is primarily self-pollinated (about 92%, prior to a blossom opening). Once the blossom is open, it is not wind pollinated, but is insect pollinated. Bagging prior to blossom opening eliminates cross-pollination, and that is its goal.
Other than transient, epigenetic alterations, Nicotiana tabacum does not significantly alter itself to adapt to growing in a new region (over a span of many human lifetimes). The misunderstanding of gradual, local adaptation arose from the absence of controlling pollination. It took tobacco folks well over a half century after Gregor Mendel to grasp genetics implications for tobacco growing.
Bob
Last edited:
bbfarmky
Member
Reading this just caused my mind to trip over a crack in the sidewalk...self-pollinated (mostly) prior to blossom opening? That sends me back to the drawing board on everything I thought I knew about pollination.
Once again, more reading required.
Last edited:
Different species of plants have worked out different mechanisms of reproduction. Humans have repeatedly disrupted them.
For example, Winesap apple blossoms always produce sterile pollen. All of the delicious Winesap apples in the world contain apple seeds that are (usually random) hybrids. Many fruit varieties are incapable of self-fertilization, for various reasons.
Most domesticated plants do not adequately disperse their seed (e.g. Nicotiana tabacum seed pods seldom split open spontaneously). This is generally human-caused, often without intent. If a seed head (say, wheat or tobacco) remains intact, it is more likely to be collected. Give that process hundreds of years, and it generally results in poor spontaneous seed dispersal within the domesticated crop.
Bob
For example, Winesap apple blossoms always produce sterile pollen. All of the delicious Winesap apples in the world contain apple seeds that are (usually random) hybrids. Many fruit varieties are incapable of self-fertilization, for various reasons.
Most domesticated plants do not adequately disperse their seed (e.g. Nicotiana tabacum seed pods seldom split open spontaneously). This is generally human-caused, often without intent. If a seed head (say, wheat or tobacco) remains intact, it is more likely to be collected. Give that process hundreds of years, and it generally results in poor spontaneous seed dispersal within the domesticated crop.
Bob
TigerTom
Well-Known Member
Beans often do this as well. They usually self-pollinate before the flowers open, but heavier bees (such as bumblebees) can force the flowers open and affect a cross.
